Re: New AP scope and more

From: starobserver2 (starobserver2_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/01/04 

Date: 1 Nov 2004 08:19:35 -0800

If cost don't go down while quality stay the same or goes up then how
come SCTs are selling less then half the inflation adjusted price of
1970's?

chris1011@aol.com (Chris1011) wrote in message news:<20041030165942.18077.00006122@mb-m03.aol.com>...
> >any costs will and do go down , regardless of the cost structure , if volume
> >increases significantly. Anybody who runs abusiness knows that. The same
> >thing happened to various steel alloys, aluminum etc. Actually aluminum is a
> >good example being so energy intensive to produce, and yet it can be had
> >very cheap. Glass is melting sand, and we won't run out of sand any time
> >soonnot to mention prices won't go up .
> >It is false that 1kg of ED glass costs what it costs now due mainly to
> >electricity costs . The energy cost is miniscule in comparison with other
> >production costs, company overhead, testing, QA, all of which are
> >significantly higher per unit in *small volume* . When demand increases,
> >volume goes up and costs go down in the long run .
> >It is also incorrect to equate offshore products with poor quality, plastic
> >parts etc. Remember a country called Japan after WWII ? Japanese products
> >were equated to crap decades ago, then slowly they became very good quality.
> >Then the same happened to Taiwan . Now China , what's the big deal or hangup
> >? Can't see the writing on the wall ?
> >>
> >best regards,
> >matt tudor
> >
> >p.s. before arguing this any further, my profession was probably the first
> >in the line of fire with respect to more and more products being made in the
> >Far East, then quality improving steadily, because I'm an electronics
> >engineer . I *know* what equipment is used in the modern silicon foundries
> >and none is hand made, from clean rooms to ultraviolet lithography and all .
> >
>
> Your first statement is incorrect. Costs do not necessarily go down with
> volume. Look at oil. The more demand there is and the more volume, the higher
> the price seems to be.
>
> Secondly, I do know my business, and volume will have little effect on the
> price of glass. Glass is not sand, unfortunately, not the kind of glass that
> you all want that will have high color correction. It has no sand in it. It is
> made mostly from CaF2, which is pulled in crystal form from a furnace. It is
> made in similar fashion to sapphire, and you should price that material some
> time. It will make your head spin. Further, high end ED glass must be annealed
> very very slowly at high temperatures, which means long time in the annealing
> oven. No labor at all, just time. Volume will NOT reduce this time. In sizes
> bigger than about 5 inches, the reject rate goes up dramatically because of
> re-crystallization, which forms localized defects in the material. Above 7"
> they do not even quote the stuff, so the alternative is CaF2, which is more
> than twice as costly. The other alternative is lower end ED, the type Meade
> uses. This can be had up to 12" size, but correction will be accordingly.
>
> Thirdly, Japanese parts after WW2 were cheaply made and in many ways crap.
> True, their quality increased, but their cost did not stay low. It increased
> also. This is true for lenses for sure (anyone remember the Japanese Unitron
> refractors of the 50's, 60's and 70's?). There is no cheap Japanese made lens
> even now with excellent color correction. In fact, they are generally more
> expensive than US made products. Ditto for Russian made apos. Ditto for German
> made apos (remember the APQ?). The same will be true of Chinese made apos, at
> least those we would call real apos and would have color correction and focal
> lengths equal to any other high end lens.
>
> Lastly, you claim to know about the silicon lithography business. Do you have
> any idea what a 6" lithographic lens costs? Look it up some time. The price
> will set you back on your keister.
>
> Roland Christen

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