Newbie Astronomy Misadventures (with Questions)

From: Michael K (none_at_)
Date: 01/16/05 

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:03:34 -0600

Ok,after lurking here and one of Yahoo Groups for many weeks learning
which scopes are toys and which are not and a little about maker's
reputation, I bought a used Orion Skyview 8" EQ.

It is A LOT more scope than I imagined - my skills certainly do not
even remotely approach utilizing --let alone taxing -- it's ability
yet. It is definately more than is physically fun to cart off to a
dark field. It takes me longer to cart the stuff to the car than it
does to gear up for overnight century (100 miles) bike rides or pack
for a week in Vegas (the city, not the star).

My plan is to work with it at least thru the summer. But I know it is
not a good sign to be thinking of selling it when you've had it less
than a week, and I feel aperature envy may set in if it gets traded
for a 4, 5 or /maybe/ 6".

The (Mis)Adventures:

I practiced setting it up several times at home (inside), to get a
feel for the steps, balancing, sighting, the order of things, location
of all the knobs as well as moving it around on the mount to get the
hang of the EQ mount. Seemed a good idea versus fumbling about in the
dark.

Two nights ago, the seemingly perpetual cloud cover broke and I took
it out. I could not see Polaris, so I couldn't polar align it, but
the latitude adjustment should be close. Initially, not a big deal as
I mainly wanted to check out the optics. So, I planned to align the
finder and scope to Mintaka (in Orion's belt). I could either see it
in the finder OR the (40mm) EP, never both.

Ok, still not the end of the world but dead reckoning/point and view
just didnt work (the -13F temp being a contributing factor). I did
stumble onto M42 which was /gorgeous/. I checked out several EPs,
focus out - focus in, and everything seems decent (definately
exceeding my skill level at any rate). I couldn't find M42 in the
finder scope, so alignment remained FUBAR.

Neither could I find Saturn amidst the stars in Gemini via dead
reckoning, so my plan is to try to get them at least aimed at the same
quadrant of the galaxy using a daytime terrestial target.

Being in ill humor and quite cold at this point, I decided to take a
quick whack at the comet, then pack it in. It should have been high in
the west, but when pointing the EQ mount westward, the eyepiece was at
4 o'clock pointing towards the ground. I tried several ways of
'getting there' (and must have looked like quite the doofus swinging
that big tube back and forth and around, back and forth and around).
In all cases, using the EP would have required some degree of
crouching except at objects nearing directly overhead. The other
cardinal points left it at 10, 11, 1 or 2 o'clock - on the upper half
of the tube - West does not.

I finally picked up the tripod and turned it around (quit laughing),
but then couldnt refind the Pleiades in it as a starting point for
hopping to the Comet (ok, laugh if you want).

The next night (last night), was a tad warmer and generally clear.
The project du jour was simply to align the finder with the tube and
maybe play with the setting circles. Doing this from the porch would
allow warm up periods.

Found a bright star, Mintaka, and eventually got them aligned. I then
calibrated the setting circles to see if I could find M42 again using
them. No luck, but I did find it using dead reckoning (panning the
sky tilting the tube hither and thither). I am getting better at
that, sad to say.

Tore the rig down and went inside, and reread the manual cover to
cover while I ate. Aha! Two grievous errors: I am supposed to use
the lower (Northern Hemisphere) RA setting circle gradations, and one
of the drive motors wasn't installed correctly. (BTW, the drives on
this are /very/ quiet - it is hard to tell they are working even at 8x
speed without seeing the knob turn. I'm impressed.)

After eating, something bright is rising and after consulting The Sky
software, determined it was Jupiter. By Jove, I should be able to
find that!! It is the only bright thing low in the SE.

So, set the whole thing up again, aim with the finder, and bingo! a
bright object right in the EP. Focus, swap out the 40mm EP and there
he is - and it must be old Jup because it has 3 clear, sharp pinpricks
(moons) - 1 above, 2 below. Very pretty (though a bit smaller than I
expected).

Ok, so lets try out some filters (part of the alure of the purchase
was that the guy was selling off everything - 6 EPs, filters,
collimators etc - I didnt have to fret over which EP to buy next).

The 10mm was a bit too much, I couldnt even see light thru the 6mm
(166x) but the 25mm, 17mm and 15mm seemed pretty good. Jupiter was
/very, very/ bright, like a piece of full moon, preventing any detail
at all from the glare. Only the presence of the moons convinced me it
was Jupe.

The Yellow and Blue filters didnt really bring out any detail, so lets
try the variable polarizer to dim it down. Good grief is THIS thing
inconvenient to use! No gradations to give feedback as to 1% vs 40%
dimming, no 'clicks' to assure it stays set while you insert the EP
AND you have to remove the EP to change gradation.

The Green filter did take off some of the glare AND if you look at it
a bit and relax your eye, 2 bands could be noticed. Removed the
filter (which will not fit the 17mm EP for some reason, but might
explain why he had a 17 and 15mm) and the bands were also noticable by
slowly focusing and relaxing the eye. Very pretty, but it didnt 'dim'
it, it just took some glare off.

Ok, a quick look at the planishere showed M104 should be a bit SSW
from Jup. Set the circles to Jup's coords, put in the 40MM and start
looking for M104. Aha! Using the slow-mo knobs doesnt change the
circle/pointers - which makes sense when you think about it (learning
simple stuff like this is another reason I am staying on the porch for
now - me and Orion will become well acquainted before I lug this stuff
to the car again).

Resight to Jupe, reset the circles, and slew the tube lower and lower
and lower. Nothing, not even many stars. Found a large arrow which
_Star Watch_ mentions but it isnt pointing to anything. Get out the
binoculars and see there is a fine, thin haze or fog or clouds lower
in the sky just about where M104 theoretically should be. So, call it
quits.

Tonight's epic task will be to find Saturn as it rises and there are
about 4 Messier objects not far from Betelguese to try and find (the
proper way, not dead reckoning).

Ok, so some questions resulting from these grand misadventures
("National Lampoon's: Astronomer!" ??)

Is an EQ mount supposed to be so hard to use? As Jupe moved westward,
I was straddling a tripod leg with the counterweights bumping my hip.
As it rose I was also having to stand on tip-toe and I am 6' 1"
[Feet-inches, not minutes-seconds, BTW :) ]

When looking for the comet, pointed westward, the EP was at 4 o'clock:
is it normal to be so inconvenienced with 1 of the 4 cardinal points?
Surely, you dont rotate the tube in the tube rings to move the
focuser/EP to a comfortable position, do you?

The Barlow (Orion Shorty) doesnt seem to work. Adding it to the mix
makes the EP too long to focus on the ones tried. I screwed it onto
an EP, then unscrewed the Barlow Lens from it's 'barrel' (what is
that, a 2" adapter?) and used it rather like a filter. Still was not
able to focus. Once or twice it seemed I was seeing the vanes and
mirror inside the scope until you tried to focus which was at best a
blur. Could this be backwards?

On one of them, it did focus if I pulled it further out of the focuser
as when removing it, but the view didnt seem 2x. This doesnt bother
me a great deal because it came with 6 EPs some of which approximate
others with a Barlow, but I am trying to learn here.

Is my assessment of the variable polarizer accurate (namely it is a
PITA to use)? I realize these are mainly meant to be a 'dimmer' for a
full or bright moon, but Jupiter seemed nearly as bright and all white
with grey bands - like a black and white photo. It may be that there
was some of the fog or thin clouds over it to make it seem so bright
and wash out some color, but it did resolve to a sharp disk.

The 6mm EP didnt seem to work at all. I thought I saw a flicker of
light on the edge of the FOV but couldnt get it centered. Changing
EPs moves the tube just enough that the object gets nudged off center
(expected), but with the 6mm the FOV so tiny, it seems you would need
a NASA/JPL laser precision type scope and major lockdown to make use
of it. Is this basically accurate?

And what is the deal with Jupiter? It was less than the apparent size
of a pencil eraser at the best mag. M42 appeared to be about the size
of a dime and I could only make out a faint hint of it with the naked
eye. Jupe, on the other hand, gets very very sharp, but not
significantly larger. It did appear a bit larger with the 15mm (66x)
vs 40mm (25x) EP, but only marginally so - I got no sense of
proportionality from them.

I understand that M42 actually takes up more sky and is just much
fainter which is what the telescope brings out. It just strikes me as
a bit odd.

Any suggestions on a Jupiter dimmer? As I said, it really looked like
a B/W photo with 2 faint grey bands. Are there better times of the
year to view it? Is it maybe just damn bright this time of year?
Between the size and brightness/glare any chance of seeing the GRS is
out of the question.

Between The Sky software, Sky & Telescope's Sky Watch, SkyMap.com's
monthly sky map and the many, MANY lists of objects and their RA/Decl
on the internet (like SEDS) what is to be gained by buying a proper
star atlas? I have _Star Watch_ which is good for what to expect and
/great/ with star hopping instructions, but lacks RA/Decl coords
integrated into the text descriptions. I end up conculting a list
ordered by number anyway for M-objects.

I have several lists printed out like Beginner's Watch List, Messier
List, the SAA Top Non Messier list, The Urban List (brighter stuff)
and Seasonal Lists etc and all come with coords and often maps. The
reason I ask is because in a recent thread on books and references on
Cloudy Nights, the virtues extolled seemed more related to enjoyment
than reference quality. That's all swell, but I want educational
stuff for now.

What would be a good atlas/reference to buy for a total novice?

Last question (for now anyway), in perusing these misadventures, are
there any tips that strike you as helpful and perhaps bloody obvious?

In the past 2 months or so, I gained a great deal from the posts and
replies to others seeking advice and info, so thanks to all for the
effort, advice for the others. Likewise, thanks in advance for any
replies you might offer.

Side note to God: You know what would really help? If the sky had a
dotted line for the ecliptic like the charts do. And next time, label
the darn constellations too, while you are at it!

Thanks again,

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Newbie Astronomy Misadventures (with Questions)
    ... parts of the sky where it seems like you just can't make the scope move ... you dont rotate the tube in the tube rings to move the ... > monthly sky map and the many, MANY lists of objects and their RA/Decl ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: Dob question
    ... You will be pleased with the Orion XT-8 Intelliscope. ... The Intelliscope does not "drive" the scope the same way a GO-TO ... you set up the scope with the tube ... hit ENTER, center the second star, hit ENTER, the scope is now aligned ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: RAT NOTES - TEC 200 F9 Triplet Apochromat - 09/01/04
    ... Sounds like a great scope. ... on bright stars at low power my eyes are crap, ... It was apparent as being a double star, ... >star patterns with APO refractors. ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: 6SN7 amp initial report
    ... I'd simply try to reflow the tube pins. ... really time for a scope now. ... Also a tek, but a fairly recent one (2225 or something like ... BTW the first and only probe that really failed her *was* the tek probe ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)
  • Re: Rat Notes: AP 160 First Light Comments
    ... Refractor on Tuesday, August 16th and I thought it was time that I post my first impressions. ... "Text Book Perfect" is a cliché with regards to star images ... What I really need to do is to spend some time with it using my 10" Zambuto equipped reflector, because it is the only scope I have that I can use to compare what I am seeing in the AP 160. ... the contrast in this instrument is simply ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)