Re: God Bless US??? Heh?

> "Sox-n-Eagles Fan" <tom_wade1996@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:df0a0s$mc9$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > I think God (or gods) was something thought up back when we were cavemen to
> > try to bring some understanding to the fear of death. this is a little
> > deep, but I think most sane people have some type of fear of death and would
> > like to have comfort in thinking that all's not over at death.

Fear of death is a manifestation of our survival instinct. It should
not be surprising.

Clide Bollinger wrote:
> The people who fear death the most are those who have lived lives NOT
> believing in God. I've seen this time and time again. Most Christians have
> very little fear of death.

Which (if your experience is representative) would actually support
Tom's hypothesis. Fear is unpleasant--that is its necessary role--and
it is natural and logical to want to get rid of it. One way get rid of
the fear of death is to deny death.

However, one's belief in an afterlife has _absolutely_no_bearing_ on
whether or not there really is an afterlife. Your observation (if
accurate) can be an argument in favor of having _faith_ or _believing_
in the afterlife, but is completely irrelevant for arguing the actual
_existence_ of the afterlife.

Not sure of the difference? Then consider that suicide bombers are
strongly and honestly convinced that they are going to heaven! I think
you can agree that their conviction doesn't imply reality. It may also
give you pause to ponder whether losing your fear of death is
necessarily a good thing.

> Even a non-believer can still possibly be
> forgiven if he/she hands their life to God moments before death.

Now, how can one hand his life over to a God that he doesn't believe
exists...? (scratches head)

> > nobody today
> > knows what happens for sure at death and they certainly didn't know any more
> > centuries ago,
>
> Not so sure about that assessment... look at those experiencing NDE's for
> one.

Any experiences from someone who was *dead* dead, and not merely near
dead? One can have a NDE merely by pulling too many Gs in an F16.
NDEs can be induced with drugs or medical procedures. Scientists have
identified the parts of the brain responsible for OBEs and other
religious or spiritual experiences.

This is all to say that a NDE is actually a _living_ biological
process. A person undergoing a NDE is *not* *dead*, so the experience
doesn't necessarily indicate what death is like. You may take it on
faith that it does, but faith doesn't indicate reality; by definition,
faith is about what is _not_ known.

(Ah, yes, someone back there points out that faith can also be about
what _is_ known--to be false. Point taken, but not applicable, as i do
not argue with Bible thumpers.)

> > so to explain the unknown (death, floods, earthquakes, etc)
> > let's make up....God. Yeah, that'll take care of it so we don't have to be
> > afraid of it anymore...somebody upstairs is doing this so no need to panic.
>
> Like I said before, these things happen because of the sin of the world.
> The Lord literally has nothing to do with it. To blame Him is like blaming
> your next door neighbor for smashing up your car when he never drove it in
> the first place.

(want to mince this argument... tempting... tempting... Resist! whew,
that was close)

Again, a matter of faith. All you've got are a millenia-old anthology
and an interpretation. Before you can effectively argue your point,
you have to get the person to buy into your faith to begin with.

Besides, Tom wasn't even arguing that God is responsible for natural
disasters. All he said is that _some_ people make that argument (which
is true), with a hypothesis of why they believe so.

> > oh, yeah and the attraction of power brought about the invention of
> > religion. If you can convince people that they should act a certain way for
> > fear of burning in hell (another cool invention) you can get them to do many
> > things...
>
> This does not ring true with a true Christian philosophy.

Maybe not, but a lot of Christians sure use it that way.

> > and the best part is that you don't even have to explain why they
> > are doing it....just say God wants it that way. (ie - Christians all
> > through the dark ages, suicide bombers in Iraq, etc)
> >
> > Just a theory. :)
>
> A theory full of holes.

Nope, Tom is correct. Less-than-savory religious leaders _do_ use God
this way to control people, and have all through history. What else
can explain such wildly irrational acts by otherwise sane people? That
it doesn't fit in with your understanding of Christian or Godly
behavior is not relevant. Tyrants do not live by your ideals.

> Again, take a closer and more in-depth look at The
> Bible. If you pray for understanding, you'll be surprised how much more
> you'll comprehend later.

Which, again, has no bearing on the way many Christians behave in real
life.

One thing i find common among Bible thumpers is an apparent confusion
over what constitutes objective reality. Belief in something does not
imply that it is real; what _should_ be isn't necessarily what _is_;
and, Disney marketing notwithstanding, wishing something doesn't make
it so.


Clear skies!

--
------------------- Richard Callwood III --------------------
~ U.S. Virgin Islands ~ USDA zone 11 ~ 18.3N, 64.9W ~
~ eastern Massachusetts ~ USDA zone 6 (1992-95) ~
--------------- http://cac.uvi.edu/staff/rc3/ ---------------

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Is anxiety a sin?
    ... Perhaps you should say how your faith effects the way you live. ... I'm not denying that this reliance on God is faith but I had in mind ... through Christ but for this world death is not a friend. ... I was recently in a discussion with a terminally ill Christian who had ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: Interview w/ Theodore Dalrymple
    ... after death for the things we did in life that it's not suprising people ... fear it. ... God most likely doesn't care, ... God didn't care. ...
    (rec.music.classical.guitar)
  • Re: He is risen
    ... Does god create clones of them? ... Why is having a faith that is false so much worse than not having a faith? ... I'm not afraid of death and I don't need the belief in a super-being or afterlife. ... It's not a fear of death, just the fear of upsetting those we leave behind. ...
    (rec.arts.drwho)
  • Re: How I recovered from a twelve year nervous breakdown
    ... THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS - Andrew Jukeshttp://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm ... Since their issue is the rejection of eternal damnation ... Satan as told in the Bible; convince persons that God does not mean ... year nervous breakdown over the fear of eternal damnation. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: How I recovered from a twelve year nervous breakdown
    ... THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS - Andrew Jukeshttp://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm ... Since their issue is the rejection of eternal damnation ... Satan as told in the Bible; convince persons that God does not mean ... year nervous breakdown over the fear of eternal damnation. ...
    (talk.origins)