Re: science and religion, was Re: Intelligent Design Invading Liberal Classrooms (was: South Park taunting Scientology)

Brian Tung:
> >When you characterized religious feeling as irrational, I found that
> >uncharitable, but accurate. However, I do not feel that way about
> >"psychologically damaged..."

Chris L Peterson:
> I did not characterize "religious feeling" as the product of
> psychological damage. I characterized a belief in core Christian
> concepts as such. More generally, I suspect (but certainly don't claim I
> can prove) that any religious beliefs that involve a "parent-like"
> deity, requiring worship, meting out punishment, and generally getting
> involved in human activities, are the product of psychological damage.

You both show an irrational disdain for religion. You come across as
being very worried lest someone think that you have religious beliefs
-- so much so that you bring to mind the extreme homophobes who end up
being outed as gays. (Will we see Mr. Tung sneaking into a church in a
blurry photo in the National Enquirer? Or a grainy photo of Mr.
Peterson accidentally letting his crucifix show?) You both come across
as lacking objectivity and you, Mr. Peterson, do not display good
manners.

Mr. Peterson's post is egregiously wrong. The core, bottom-line,
only-thing-you-really-need-to-know tenet of Christianity is that people
should be kind to each other, absolutely. To characterize this belief
as resulting from "psychological damage" is patently ridiculous.

> BTW, I don't consider "psychologically damaged" to be insulting or
> pejorative...

Really? That is Bushian. Nixonian. (Isn't there a Usenet "law" that
asserts that if a thread persists long enough, someone's tactics or
beliefs will inevitably be compared to those of Nixon?) Your entire
post is an insult to persons who have religious beliefs -- pretty much
a carbon copy of the insults you dredge up every time the subject comes
up. You are as intolerant of those who do not disbelieve as you do as
religious extremists are intolerant of those who do not believe as they
do. You paint with a broad brush, refusing to see a difference between
extremists and the mainstream. No respect, no live and let live.

Scientifically, you apparently do not keep up with the literature on
the evolutionary advantages conveyed upon humanity by religious faith
(though the value to human society of treating each other kindly is so
obvious that one would think that it would not need much elaboration);
nor do you consider the evidence that humans are predisposed by
evolution -- "genetically wired" -- for religious belief (and if that's
true, is disbelief an aberration, possibly a result of "psychological
damage?"*); nor do you follow the medical literature on the value of
religious faith to persons who are suffering greatly from disease or
injury or who have a loved one who is suffering; or who have lost a
loved one, especially from sudden, unnatural causes; or who have
suffered a material loss such as the loss of all of one's possessions
in a fire or natural disaster. In direct contradiction of your
assertions, considerable evidence suggests that persons of faith are
/less/ likely to suffer short or long-term psychological damage as a
result of such crises than are non-religious people. The literature
further suggests that persons of faith may tolerate pain better than
non-believers and may heal more quickly, both physically and
emotionally, than persons who possess little or no faith.**

So lighten up. And be kind to others.

Davoud

*See the popular writings of Stephen Hawking. It would not be at all
surprising if his extremely unfortunate physical circumstances have
caused a degree of psychological damage. Could that be what brought
about Hawking's hatred of God? Hawking has an ax to grind; he is on a
zealous mission to prove that there is no God, a fool's errand that
makes no more sense than claiming that the very existence of the
Universe proves that there is a God.

** "Patient spirituality and religiosity have been shown to be
correlated with reduced morbidity and mortality, better physical and
mental health, healthier lifestyles, fewer required health services,
improved coping skills, enhanced well-being, reduced stress, and
illness prevention. Many of these studies have been criticized, yet
most physicians believe spirituality has a positive effect on physical
and mental well-being of patients."
<http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/translations/afm-McCord356.pdf>
The references at the end of this publication are particularly
interesting.

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
.

Relevant Pages

  • The liberal-conservative dynamic within the Bahai Faith
    ... the seemingly inevitable breaking up of the Baha'i Faith into sects whose ... Currently it is obvious through the Universal House of Justices own words ... The Universal House of Justice in enacting such councils which clearly do ... witness to the Baha'i Faith's transmutation from a potential world religion ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • The tedium of dogmatic atheism.
    ... The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason, by Sam ... In The End of Faith, Sam Harris, a UCLA philosophy grad student, has ... billion Islamic believers, the vast majority of clerics and lay Muslims ...
    (soc.culture.thai)
  • =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Introduction_to_the_Bah=E1=27=ED_Faith?=
    ... Introduction to the Bahá'í Faith ... outward practices of religion that are so different, ... The Reality is the Truth, ... Every true Prophet hath regarded His ...
    (soc.religion.bahai)
  • Re: Darwins Appendix
    ... the basis of first-hand experience of following halakhah as it evolved ... practice it is not based on faith but on experience? ... There is an excuse for the Philosophers. ... science and religion did not come to them as inheritances. ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)
  • Re: Security Guard - God Guided Me And Protected Me
    ... would simply say "Science doesn't provide the tools ... unlike religion which is static until it ... and then the next moment can talk seriously about faith ... trying to find the candy store where your friend just bought ...
    (soc.retirement)
Loading