Re: what has happened to people

On Apr 22, 11:47 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
I do not enjoy coming here and explaining the basic reasons why clocks
keep in sync with axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour to an audience
which prefers an incorrect value of 24 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds.

.
I can certainly understand that it is frustrating to explain something
that is true and not be understood.


The value I give above is a typo and if you are truly desperate you
can harp on about the typo then be my guest.If you feel more
comfortable then accept the institutional value which is false and
counter-productive and especially using the motions of the Earth to
justify the value -

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml


All because a man made a simple mistake in 1676 in a statement which
bears a false correlation -

"... our clocks kept so good a correspondence with the Heavens that I
doubt it not but they would prove the revolutions of the Earth to be
isochronical... " John Flamsteed

.
Actually, there is empirical evidence in favor of Flamsteed. The
Earth's orbit around the Sun is elliptical, not a perfect circle.


Using a 1461 day calendrical cycle ,split into 3 years of 365 days and
1 year of 366 days ,is no way to justify the motions of the Earth.To
keep a star returning in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds each and every
time you need a civil calendar system otherwise it will not work.



Does Solar noon recur at a given location exactly every 24 hours? No,

Make sure you tell this to your sidereal buddies who require that the
Earth does rotate to face noon in 24 hours -

http://www.pfm.howard.edu/astronomy/Chaisson/AT401/IMAGES/AACHCIR0.JPG

The .986 degree/3 minute 56 second difference is meant to show the
difference between 24 hours and 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds.



it doesn't. If you compare Solar noon indicated by a sundial to an
accurate clock over the course of a year, it will come earlier or
later by about 15 minutes. This is known as the "Equation of Time",
and it is embodied in the figure of the Analemma which appears on
older globes.

As, I believe, you well know.


The analemma was the monstrous fudge used by the late 17th century
guys to bury the principles which are purely heliocentric both in
determining how the orbital motion of the Earth resolves the observed
behavior of the other planets and how clocks were adapted to axial
rotation as a 24 hour/360 degree correlation as a geographical
seperation.

In short,adhere to 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds for axial rotation
and you are rejecting Copernican heliocentricity outright


But when we look at the Earth, moving around the Sun, in the larger
context of the fixed stars, while the Earth turning to face the Sun is
not *exactly* regular with a period of 24 hours, the Earth turning to
face in the same direction in absolute space *is* exactly regular in
terms of the sidereal period of 23 hours and 56 minutes and so on
(*not* 24 hours and 56 minutes, that *would* be horribly wrong; there
are not 13 days in a year, and, for that matter, the Sun does not rise
in the West).


Typo ,end of story.



So amateur astronomers do need to fiddle with ordinary clock movements
to make clock drives out of them. And scientists thinking in terms of
the *conservation of angular momentum* do need to think in the non-
rotating frame of reference defined by the line between Earth and,
say, Antares instead of the line between the Earth and the Sun.


Newton created the AU out of Flamsteed's false correlation and proof
for axial rotation and constellation geometry.It is an ugly spectacle
trying to fit a .986 degree orbital displacement into elliptical
geometry -

http://www.pfm.howard.edu/astronomy/Chaisson/AT401/IMAGES/AACHCIR0.JPG

Try it and watch the hideous spectacle of the Earth travelling faster
at the aphelion as it has to cover a greater orbital circumference to
satisfy the .986 degree daily difference.

I would much prefer that you took the original considerations involved
in the adaption of clocks to axial rotation via the Copernican
resolution for retrogrades via the orbital motion of the Earth.



(Of course, the Sun and Antares both rotate around the galactic
center, so this line does not really define a _truly_ nonrotating
reference frame, just one that doesn't rotate over a longer time
scale.)






Flamsteed did not make any mistake, although it took later astronomers
to verify that the Earth's rotation relative to the stars is very
nearly isochronous. Not perfectly, thanks to the Moon and its tides -
which is why we have leap seconds.

John Savard

You think you are working with a 365 day 5 hours 49 minute system when
you are actually working with a system of 3 years of 365 days and 1
year of 366 days,the fact that you determine the return o a star to
your meridian in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds lets you know that the
4 cycles of the Earth cannot be forced into a civil calendar system no
matter how convenient it is for Ra/Dec observing.

Everyone is an astronomer by living by the daily astronomical cycle
generated by the Earth's rotation,it would be really nice if somebody
appreciated how this cycle not only makes existence possible but also
how brilliant men created the 24 hour day based on the cycle in pre-
heliocentric times and how astronomers adapted the 24 hour day Equaion
of Time principles to axial rotation when it was discovered by
Copernicus.

Nobody is going to take away the 23 hour 56 minute 04 second
observational convenience for magnification but using the axial and
orbital motions of the Earth to justify it is an entirely different
matter.This is why Flamsteed's statement is
wrong,unsatisfactory,counter-productive and what have you -

"... our clocks kept so good a correspondence with the Heavens that I
doubt it not but they would prove the revolutions of the Earth to be
isochronical... " John Flamsteed


Tell me what the analemma looks like at the Equator and you will
discover far more than you bargained for.




.

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