Re: Extrasolar transit of TrEs-4

On Sep 2, 11:19 pm, Margo Schulter <mschul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 <geraldkelle...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
What sets Newton and his followers apart is that they will swear blind
that the Earth rotates through 360 degrees in 23 hours 56 minutes 04
seconds,they need it to make their 'predictions work'.An intelligent
21st century person recognises that for a star to return every 23
hours 56 minutes or 3 minutes 56 seconds earlier each night,it
requires the 1461 day calendrical cycle to work.

if you can fit 4 annual orbital cycles of the Earth into a 4 year
system based on 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days then good
for you.The short answer is that the system Newton built on exists
only in the imagination and it never worked.

Please let me for now address just one narrow point: since 1582, with
the adaptation of the Gregorian calendar over large portions of
Western Europe, the relevant cycle would be not 1461 days, but
146097 days, if my crude arithmetic is correct: a 400-year cycle
with three leap days omitted, one for each centennial year not
divisible by 400. It's true that this calendar wasn't adopted
in England until 1752, after the era of Newton and Flamsteed.

Anyway, in sum, I'd see either a terrestrial frame of reference
or a solar frame of reference as quite compatible with a
heliocentric view of the Solar System, and your images give
a neat perspective.


The images are from Mr Tezel based on plotting the positions of
Jupiter and Saturn against the same stellar background,the same
procedure which goes back to remote antiquity -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/jupsatloop_tezel.jpg

The 23 images represent about a year's work where the seperate images
are made two weeks apart .

It is when the sequence of images is rendered into time lapse footage
that you can see the Earth overtaking Jupiter and Saturn in our common
orbits around the central Sun -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

When you do see the Earth overtaking the slower moving planets it is
only a short step to realising how Copernican then using axial
rotation to explain the daily cycle.

The hypothetical observer on the Sun to explain retrogrades has no
astronomical precedence and it would have horrified the astronomers
Kepoler and Galileo who are faithful to the only possible way to view
apparent motions and resolve them -

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and
Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent
than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that
the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its
motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends
more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose
circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and
retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that
really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is
acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . .


You see, gentlemen, with what ease and simplicity the annual motion
-- if made by the Earth -- lends itself to supplying reasons for the
apparent anomalies which are observed in the movements of the five
planets. . . . It removes them all and reduces these movements to
equable and regular motions; and it was Nicholas Copernicus who first
clarified for us the reasons for this marvelous effect." 1632,
Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo











When reading the article on Kepler, quite fascinating on the
shift from _orbis_ (traditionally meaning a "sphere," concrete
or notional) to _orbita_ (the "track" or path of a planet),
I noticed that the authors see no contradiction between him
and Newton. Certainly I'd see RA/Dec as a convenience rather
than an explanation of the applicable laws of physics, to take
a Keplerian perspective.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter
mschul...@xxxxxxxxxx
Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430

What you do is match up the 'Panis Quadragesimalis ' representation of
Kepler with the actual time lapse footage of the Earth overtaking
Jupiter and Saturn -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

When you start to see how Kepler was making orbital comparisons
between an orbitally moving Earth and an orbitally moving Mars you
will not wish to ever return to guessing what a hypothetical observer
sees from the Sun.







.

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