Re: The Ethos is Coming!

On Sep 11, 7:10 am, josephus <dogb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Sep 10, 12:05 pm, josephus <dogb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

oriel36 wrote:

On Sep 9, 12:31 pm, josephus <dogb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

oriel36 wrote:

You are doing no more than rewriting the same old error -

"Against the backdrop of the distant stars, the Earth has two simple
and regular motions. It turns on its axis once every 23 hours, 56
minutes, and 4.1005 seconds, and it orbits the Sun once every 365
days, 6 hours, 9 minutes, and 9.7676 seconds (these figures being
those which applied at the start of the year 2000)."

The Equation of Time system transfers the equable 24 hour day to the
axial cycle as though it were 'constant' in principle which means that
axial rotation as an isolated motion has never been determined and it
certainly is nowhere close to 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds.

Even the most indifferent investigator will find it odd that if the
Earth has a variable orbital speed and it does not show up in the
'sidereal time' justification for axial and orbital motion,then
something is badly wrong -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Tiempo_sid%C3%A9re...

Again,for those who take astronomy seriously,the extraction of axial
rotation from variable orbital speed would be a very difficult task,it
has never been done and it certainly is not going to be achieved by
numbskulls who have no feel for the material.The reason it is
important is for climatological reasons insofar as it is the
relationship between axial and orbital motions/orientations that
generate the seasons.

You cannot reference axial rotation to the distant stars and then turn
around and justify orbital motion to the Sun in terms of a 3 minute 56
second/.986 degree axial coordinate -

http://www.pfm.howard.edu/astronomy/Chaisson/AT401/IMAGES/AACHCIR0.JPG

The idea that a location rotates to noon every 24 hours is lethal for
climatological studies insofar as the solar radiation/orbital shadow
boundary alters both longitudinally and latitudinally (due to the
orbital motion of the Earth) with the longitudinal component
responsible for the observation of unequal natural noon cycles.

Is it so difficult to grasp that the relationship between the 24 hour
day and the axial cycle never went beyond a correlation between the
human devised 'average 24 hour cycle' and a 'constant axial cycle'
which never refered to axial rotation as an isolated motion much less
orbital motion.I look at the justification from the US navy site and
they too make the same error over and over again -

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html

So much for national security !,the point is that isolating axial
rotation has yet to be achieved and it does need to be achieved pronto
given climatological studies are dependent on it.Perhaps there are
responsible people who have the ability to split the Earth's compound
motions into their respective isolated states but I have yet to see
anybody come close.

You do not have the knack for these things yet there are people out
there who do and maybe see how important it is to get it right.

Sorry for calling you a halfwit,you are only repeating what you have
learned and can safely continue believing whatever you need to keep
your concepts going.

orbital motion is not constant. the earth has nutation and even weather
can cause changes. this is why standards uses the Atomic system and UT
is defined with this system. It is all explained in the Astronomical
Journal.

josephus

Nobody has ever determined the value for axial rotation as an isolated
motion and it is nowhere close to 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds and
fractions thereof whichg contemporaries believe.

I concede that the means by which the equable 24 hour day was
transfered to the axial cycle as 'constant' in principle (thereby
allowing terrestrial longitudes and clock time to mesh at 24 hours/360
degrees) is a delicate principle and civil and military authorities
may not be aware of it but the system inherited from F;lamsteed's
false proof for constant axial rotation via zodiacal geometry is
shocking from every type of angle.

So, we are a technologically advanced society who have yet to isolate
axial rotation because it interferes with late 17th century agendas by
Flamsteed/Newton and adopt ideas for the Earth's axial and orbital
motions that exist only in the imagination.Anybody who wonders what
happens to variable orbital speed when the constant cyclical value of
23 hours 56 min 04 sec is proposed will get an inkling that something
is badly wrong.

I look at what the website from the navy had to say -

"Historically, the second was defined in terms of the rotation of the
Earth as 1/86,400 of a mean solar day. "

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html

The second was never defined in terms of axial rotation,nor the
hour ,not even the parent 24 hour cycle from which equable
hours,minutes and seconds are derived,again,the timekeeping
astronomers exploited the means by which one 24 hour cycle elapses
into the next 24 hour cycle and applied it to the axial cycle as
though it were 'constant',it still remains that way.The extraction of
axial rotation as an isolated motion has never been accomplished but
it sure needs to be.

I actually read and post in several ng. I have of course been in
talk.origins, sci.skeptic, sci.astro and sci.astro.amateur and others.

You are a visitor from the empiricist talk.origins forum,a quasi-
commie group * that imagines Christ and Christianity as a throwback to
some era where men did not reason correctly or understand nature .Like
it or not,Western civilisation ,imperfect though it may be,is built on
a Christian foundation and although its merit system and civil/
military authority may be Roman for the most part,it allowed for
some of the greatest human individual achievements and was always
rightly defended.Looking at the navy promote an empirical ideology
like the 'leap second' correction as applied to axial rotation it is
hard to imagine that they are defending a concept which has rotted
Western astronomy from within and destroyed the merit system to boot
and all because a man (Flamsteed) made a simple mistake.

historically I could agree, but MODERN ASTROMETRY does not use the
second the way you assert. there are SEVERAL kinds of seconds. and it
depends on what kind of calculation, you are making.

You are a quasi-commie empiricist with an unhealthy view of almost
everything.If you can invent SEVERAL types of seconds then good for
you,I am sure the creationists will be delighted to hear it but at
least those in s.a.a. have not descended to that dismal intellectual
level so far.

I did not invent these different time schemes. I study them and try to
understand them so I can study CELESTIAL MECHANICS.



I have always told these guys that magnification/optics is a facet of
astronomy but too limiting to call itself astronomy ,their ties do not
belong to the empirical agenda which has destroyed heliocentric
reasoning but to the noble discipline of structural and timekeeping
astronomy and ther tradition of Copernicus,Kepler and Huygens.The
dynamicists would belong as an important facet but they subscribe to
an astrological framework and framehopping within it.

I am sorry you are a kook. but nobody cares but you.





the astronomical

day is the standard of time unit. Most of the formulas I use are
expressed in day and Julian centuries. Laboratories care about seconds.
the astronomical records are usually in barycenter time. but that is not
equal to UT or wall clock time.

sidereal time for EARTH is 365.256363 this particular constant in this
formula
K^2/(r*PI) * (365.256363)^2 * (1+1/328900.55) ==
(1.0000000109)^(1/3) = 1.00000036397 AU

observe that Time is in days and distance is in Astronomical Unities (AU)

In all respect I do not care for the politics,the technical details
explicitly determine that axial rotation has never been isolated and
determined whether the motion is constant or not.I can also definitely
state that it is Not,I repeat, not anywhere close to 23 hours 56
minutes 04 seconds or parts thereof -

that is just not true. Mean time is , but UT is not.
and there are tables to calculate nutation. the wobble due to Lunar and
other influences. I really dont understand how we could calculate
nutation and not know the earth rotation is not constant.
the period of the MOON is 27.6221 days and it oscillates due to
solar influence. the moon was used to establish time. this is why
Atomic Time is the new standard. the only people who really care are
astronomers. nobody else needs to know about BARYCENTER TIME, EPHEMERIS
TIME, or any variety than WALL CLOCK TIME or UT.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml

On Sep 8, 3:13 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Brian Tung wrote:

By the way, please stop arguing with Gerald Kelleher. Just a gentle
request.

I hate to say no to such polite requests, because I understand what
prompts them.

While, at present, this group is getting gunked up by a deliberate
attack - and we have other sources of noise as well, such as the
person who keeps complaining about Starlord, or our resident Christian
sidereal astrologer - it makes sense that replies are only encouraging
someone whose posts are viewed as

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again,it is not often that astronomers get to work with a new motion
and the counter motion supplied by the Earth's orbital motion and
observed by the latitudinal and longitudinal motion of the solar
radiation/orbital shadow boundary should be a cause for
celebration.The axial rotational orientation of the Earth obscures
the orbital change in orientation however it is fairly easy to see
once you extract axial rotation or seperate it from orbital motion.As
the axial rotational orientation of Uranus is almost at 90 degrees to
the change in orbital orientation of the planet,it should be fairly
easy for astronomers to apply the same principle to the Earth -

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/11/images/uranus_5year.jpg

The educational structure at the time of Copernicus was good enough to
weigh up the physical considerations based on giving the Earth and
axial and orbital motion in explaining physical phenomena ,this chance
has come around again insofar as the need to modify the reason for the
seasons using the axial/orbital motions and orientations of the Earth
requires recognition that a location does not face noon every 24 hours
as 'celestial mechanics' has it * .

There are enough intelligent people around,whether they consider
themselves amateur/professional or novice/expert, to see that the
extreme axial rotational orientation of Uranus allows a view of the
orbital orientation change and this occurs for the Earth
also,latitudinally causing hemispherical weather patterns and daylight/
darkness asymmetry but longitudinally explaining why the noon cycles
are unequal in length globally.

As there are productive working principles
(astronomy,climatology,geology ect) involved in identifying the
orbital component it is not really a conclusion but it is a resting
point for me,these things involve an effort that takes its toll as
anyone who has spent some time with the material will
testify,notwithstanding the hostiility or the silence .











* 'Period Of Rotation'
"The actual value is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds. This is the
length of a "sidereal" day. It is the actual time it takes the Earth
to rotate 360 degrees. The term "sidereal" (pronounced sigh-dear'-
real) refers to the rotation of the Earth being measured relative to
the stars. There ARE 24 hours in a "solar day". This is the time it
takes from one noon (sun overhead) to the next noon. The difference in
the two "days" arises from the fact that during a day the Earth also
travels nearly a degree further on its yearly trek around the Sun. "
Marshall Space Flight Center.

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/rocket_sci/orbmech/period.html












.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: non relativist / non aetherist reply
    ... > | the Earth axially rotates out of its orbital shadow) and you will ... > | the Sun. ... motion.You view the circumpolar motion of the stars in this light ... assumes axial rotation to be constant and equalises all the variables ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Reply to Bill
    ... It is easier to explain how the 24 hour cycle is derived from the same ... So you keep saying but the Earth is required to do nothing,the only ... powerful imaging in other words,where orbital motion has a distinct ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: Letter of Copernicus to Pope Paul
    ... It is the actual time it takes the Earth to ... astronomical matters justify axial rotation as a different value than ... motion are based on the wrong value for axial rotation,the sidereal ... the faith of good Christians while denominational Christianity remains ...
    (soc.culture.irish)
  • Re: Einstein and the Ether, Reciprocating Space-Time and Transverse Waves
    ... > aether being a medium at absolute rest. ... time and motion so no,absolute space is not an invention of Kant. ... axial rotation to be constant while recognising that the reference by ... of the Earth via stellar circumpolar motion. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The Equinox
    ... - daily rotation which causes the day and night cycle and the slow ... in the daylight/darkness cycle at all points North and South of the ... noticed that the Earth orbits the Sun in a specific way.The orbital ... motion of the planet is slowly turning to the central Sun and is about ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
Quantcast