Re: An astronomer's view of mechanics

On Oct 7, 1:44 am, jsav...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (John Savard)
wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:19:02 -0700, oriel36 <geraldkelle...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote, in part:

On Oct 6, 7:07 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
If a star returns constantly to a location and it
requires an additionalleap day every 4th year it should follow that
you are not dealing with a concept of 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes but
rather the calendrical convenience of 365/366 days.

I'm afraid I don't understand that at all.

What 24 hour day does a star Not return 3 minutes 56 seconds earlier
and you get your answer ?

There is no such day.


That is correct and this is how you know that you are working with a
system of 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days instead of 365
days 5 hours 49 minutes.



You need the calendar system of 365/366 days to make it work for on
the 1st March,whether a leap year or not, a star will return 3
minutes 56 seconds earlier than the day before.

Indeed true, whether that day was the 28th of February or the 29th? But
so what?


That is the difference between an astronomer and an astrologer.




Because:

1/(23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds) + 1/(365 days 5 hours 49 minutes) =
1/(24 hours).

No two cycles are the same. No two cycles are commensurate.

But the Earth turns a certain amount in a day - 1 rotation plus one
365.25th part of a rotation.

And the Earth moves a certain amount in a day around the Sun - one
365.25th part of a revolution.


All you are doing now is trying to justify axial and orbital motion
using the calendar system via the return of a star to a location and
that is little more than a mixture of creationism and
astrology,again,it really is that bad.


Take away the part of the revolution from the part of the rotation, and
you have the Earth facing the Sun again after the one day.

But this is not exact, because the Earth's rotation is tilted compared
to the revolution, and the revolution is in an ellipse, not a circle -
so the day still averages to 24 hours, but you have the Equation of
Time.

That this one day is an odd fraction of the year does not matter at all.
In any way, shape, or form. Why should it?

I think even you can see why the statement of Flamsteed is invalid now
in terms of being calendrically based -

"... our clocks kept so good a correspondence with the Heavens that I
doubt it not but they would prove the revolutions of the Earth to be
isochronical... " John Flamsteed

It sometimes happens that a premise can be presented in a neat form
and answered accordingly.By taking a wider view,specifically the enite
1461 day calendrical cycle it is possible to affirm that Flamsteed's
statement is invalid.Of course there is nobody around to gauge the
impact of this but there is nothing I can do about that.

If you did have the truth, what you could do is explain it more clearly.

John Savardhttp://www.quadibloc.com/index.html

John,the truth of things is not something I could or would claim for
I am free to enjoy this creation with the background of Christ and
Christianity,I am sure to contemporary eyes that looks like
capitulation to a dying belief but the opposite is true and I do not
believe anyone who opposes the faith of people,be it simple or more
elaborate can ever really be a productive astronomer.The central
intutive feeling and intelligence for investigating celestial and
terrestrial phenomena is pretty much the same for appreciating
Christianity,not in its complexity but rather just the simple glow you
get from being absorbed in the pursuit.

As for explaining things clearly I make no excuses,astronomy beyond
magnification can be a highly involved discipline made even more
complicated by the guys in the late 17th century who overlaid an
astrological framework on heliocentric principles.I have not
complained that external circumstances compound the difficulty in
untangling corrupt notions from correct ones but observely,my external
circumstances keep me grounded with people who know nothing of these
things and that is a blessing in some ways.The point is not being
enamored by complexity of astronomical things but being able to reduce
them to precepts which can be easily recognised -where the 24 hour day
comes from,how clocks are kept in sync with the axial cycle,how the
Earth does not keep the same face to the Sun and many many more things
like that which truly require a clear explanation.

One of the most influencial posts I have seen in recent years was a
simple one,a guy who took a wider view as opposed to the narrow view
of a consortium of 'astronomers' -

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro.research/msg/46be522376af3010


The same with a 'sidereal time' justification,when you take a wider
view it unravels and there is a litlle 'glow' you get by realising it.

I really respect that you are open in your beliefs and so you
should,those who stay silent can do nothing but cringe and hope you
stay quiet,again,without qualification,I admire your conviction and no
person with conviction is ever mediocre.


.

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