Re: An astronomer's view of mechanics

On Oct 7, 1:21 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
All you are doing now is trying to justify axial and orbital motion
using the calendar system via the return of a star to a location and
that is little more than a mixture of creationism and
astrology, again, it really is that bad.

You say this, but I cannot see it.


I know you cannot see it even though you are trying.When I showed you
the text of Huygens and how 24 hour clock noon is derived from the
natural unequal noon cycles you still cannot see what is wrong with
the fictional difference between a solar/sidereal day in terms of the
Earths motions -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tiempo_sid%C3%A9reo.en.png




and I do not
believe anyone who opposes the faith of people,be it simple or more
elaborate can ever really be a productive astronomer.

The faith that human consciousness is a real, meaningful phenomenon,
not some sort of illusion (were it an illusion, who is there to be
deceived by it?), that our fellow human beings matter, and that right
and wrong are as real as the truths of logic and mathematics - this
much faith I have. It is not much, but there are atheists who would
feel that this is enough faith to make me one who has capitulated to
superstition.


Sounds great when you stand on a stable foundation but as I always
point out,the basis of your celestial beliefs is astrological and not
astronomical and your problems with the daily cycle reach even lower
than the level of the creationists.,At least they believe in something
greater than themselves.



Some forms of revealed religion have led people to feel justified in
violating natural law; we see this in those who persecuted Galileo,
and we see this today in terrorism. But that is indeed no reason to
oppose the faith of people of good will.


Galileo believed what Copernicus proposed as the solution for
retrogrades seen from an orbitally moving Earth I but you do not
believe it ,prefing an alternative and false Newtonian view of
retrogrades and their resolution via a hypothetical observer -


'Here Salviati explains Jupiter's motion, then follows with'

" Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and
Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent
than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that
the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its
motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends
more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose
circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and
retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that
really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is
acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . .

You see, gentlemen, with what ease and simplicity the annual motion --
if made by the Earth -- lends itself to supplying reasons for the
apparent anomalies which are observed in the movements of the five
planets. . . . It removes them all and reduces these movements to
equable and regular motions; and it was Nicholas Copernicus who first
clarified for us the reasons for this marvelous effect." 1632,
Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems Galileo

Galileo tried to put words in the Pope's mouth and the Pope threw him
to the curia who cared nothing of astronomy or much else.The
persecution was a political response and there is far too much of the
same thing in this era insofar as it is only politics upholding the
dumb view of Newton as opposed to the correct interpretation by people
like Copernicus,Galileo and Kepler.



I have sufficient understanding of the technical matters at issue here
to know that you have stumbled; that the remarks of Newton and
Flamsteed to which you object change nothing of what Kepler and
Copernicus had already said, and that Newton led the way in a proper
fashion to further build upon what Kepler had achieved.


You are mistaken,Flamsteed led the way and Newton followed him down a
very astrological path,a path so bad that I basically have to wreck
myself trying to point in the direction of correct astronomical
working methods.



However important intuition may be, it does not serve as an argument
for faith for you to, lacking the proper mathematical knowledge,
stumble in those matters, and make of yourself an object of ridicule.
To do this prevents you from being properly heard as an advocate for
faith.


I will tell you what,I would gladly suffer any ridicule than see
another generation indoctrinated in astrological beliefs and the
empirical cult.If you want to know what faith actually is,I will
direct you to St Francis who correctly points out that challenging
yourself requires more faith than listening to any ideology -

http://www.feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

My reward is the ridicule of you and your dull and dismal kind but it
would be nice to see some productive people finally put a stop to the
contrived nonsense which has hijacked genuine astronomical methods and
insights,if not as a Christian then as a genuine good person.



I believe that with greater understanding, you will find that the
conventional understanding of the motions of the heavens is not in
fact objectionable in some of the ways you object to it, and in the
others, the objections are not really valid.

John Savard

I think the participants of sci.astro.amateur deserve to have you as
their authority now,you are the only one openly supporting the false
correlation and conclusion of Flamsteed and I admire that,even if it
is astrological.Go ahead and speak about the astronomical achievements
of relativity and Newton's work and see how they respond.




.

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