Re: Enjoying the Panis Quadragesimalis using modern imaging

On Jan 13, 7:28 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 13, 7:36 am, oriel36 <kelleher.ger...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The retrograde loops represent the Earth overtaking Mars using the
same stellar background,again,as seen from an orbitally moving Earth -
Unfortunately a complete misinterpretation of the representation
occured via Newton who thought that placing the Sun at the center
would cause the retrograde loops to disappear hence his awful approach
to and resolution of retrogrades -

This is what I don't understand. If retrogades are caused by the Earth
_overtaking_ Mars, then this means that Earth and Mars are both moving
in the same direction around the Sun. And isn't that just exactly what
Newton was saying?

I can only think that you dislike something in his wording, or his
choice to explicitly use a heliocentric *perspective* to describe
heliocentric *motion*. But I cannot comprehend why this would be
considered valid.

Of course if the planets move around the Sun, these motions are most
simply described in terms of how they look from a framework centered
on the Sun - even if we then also must still show that this accounts
for the same motions, which include real visible retrogades, when seen
from Earth. Which astronomers today do; no one denies that the planets
appear to move in a retrogade direction in Earth's skies, and that it
is because of Earth overtaking the outer planets is exactly what
conventional astronomers currently realize. If you think they say
otherwise, you have misunderstood them.

John Savard

This thread is actually about enjoying the reasoning Kepler employed
via Copernicus by using modern imaging as an aid,it is not about an
imvalid view which Newton and his followers,including yourself,adopt.

It begins with the plotted motions of the Mars against the background
stars,represented by the outer band of symbols in the Keplerian
diagram -

http://www.astrocruise.com/planeta.htm

The next step is to render the motions into orbital comparisons
between Earth and Mars just as Copernicus first did .The time lapse
footage of the Earth overtaking Jupiter and Saturn is sufficient to
carry the point -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

"Copernicus, by attributing a single annual motion to the earth,
entirely rids the planets of these extremely intricate coils [spiris],
leading the individual planets into their respective orbits
[orbitas],quite bare and very nearly circular. In the period of time
shown in the diagram, Mars traverses one and the same orbit as many
times as the 'garlands' [corollas] you see looped towards the
centre,with one extra, making nine times, while at the same time the
Earth repeats its circle sixteen times " Kepler refering to diagram
on page 86 -

http://mitpress.mit.edu/journals/pdf/POSC_13_1_74_0.pdf

As heliocentric reasoning,based on orbital comparisons, has almost
vanished due to the dominance of an invalid view based on a
hypothetical observer on the Sun,it is wonderful to see how modern
imaging and especially time lapse footage allows people to see how
vibrant the reasoning of Copernicus,Kepler and Galileo actually is.

The real reward is the introduction of a new refinement,the
application of a new orbital component extracted by using modern
imaging of Uranus and the magnificent turning of a location with
respect to the Sun using the Equatorial ring as an orbital beacon -

http://space.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn12529/dn12529-1_800.jpg

I am astonished that people who call themselves astronomers can
ignore that new motion which is so clear and so simple in those
sequence of images.The motion of that ring will be in accordance with
Keplerian orbital geometry insofar as it turning is not even but
varies according to where the planet exists in its orbit around the
Sun.It is the main component in the variation in the length of the
natural noon cycle as axial rotation,again using the rings of Uranus
can be seen to exist as a seperate motion,as long as people keep the
motions and orientations seperate there should be no problem.



















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