Re: OT: Why is s.a.a. a target for religious discussion?

On Mar 15, 9:23 pm, astrosketc...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
"Ioannis" wrote:
I am extremely interested in WHY
people in this group engage in religious discussions more often than, say, in
sci.math or sci.optics for example.

The origin of the universe has been a topic on which astronomers have
accumulated and studied evidence, and drawn scientific conclusions
based upon that body of evidence.  Religion has tackled the same topic
-- often via the study of relatively ancient writings -- typically
arriving at conclusions that are at odds with today's body of
scientific evidence.  Thus the origin of the universe presents a
common topic on which astronomy and religion are often in extreme
disagreement.


Copernicus did not fear Church censure,he feared your kind -

"Therefore I debated with myself for a long time whether to publish
the volume which I wrote to prove the earth’s motion or rather to
follow the example of the Pythagoreans and certain others, who used to
transmit philosophy’s secrets only to kinsmen and friends, not in
writing but by word of mouth, as is shown by Lysis’ letter to
Hipparchus. And they did so, it seems to me, not, as some suppose,
because they were in some way jealous about their teachings, which
would be spread around; on the contrary, they wanted the very
beautiful thoughts attained by great men of deep devotion not to be
ridiculed by those who are reluctant to exert themselves vigorously in
any literary pursuit unless it is lucrative; or if they are stimulated
to the nonacquisitive study of philosophy by the exhortation and
example of others, yet because of their dullness of mind they play the
same part among philosophers as drones among bees. When I weighed
these considerations, the scorn which I had reason to fear on account
of the novelty and unconventionality of my opinion almost induced me
to abandon completely the work which I had undertaken." Copernicus in
his letter to the Pope.

He had justifiables reasons because his method and his insight was
eventually destroyed by the emergence of empircism in the late 17th
century.Empircists and the denomination Christian authorities are
merely a consequence of thinking that is neither scientific or
religious but that of the philosophical 'drones'.



Then there's the life issue.  Astronomy isn't exactly the proper
science to address the origins of species here on earth.
Nevertheless, life is of concern to many astronomers -- particularly
life beyond earth.  Understanding life on earth is helpful in
understanding the possibilities of life on other planets.  Religious
works have addressed the origin of life on earth while typically
ignoring the possibility of life on other planets (not too surprising
since a 'planet' to the ancient writers of some religious works was
little more than a 'wandering star' (or perhaps in some cases a
sentient deity) in the night sky (or on the celestial sphere).  The
concept of a planet as a large, solid, spheroidal object with its own
atmosphere and possibly its own biosphere was unheard of).


It was the work of Flamsteed that introduced the 'wandering Sun' into
the celestial arena whereas no astronomer,at least one worthy of the
name,would be horrified at such a notion.The 'wanderers' are simply
those motions taken against the stellar background and resolved
through the Earth's own motion,somehow you manage to dishonor both
Copernicus and the antecedent geocentric astronomers -

Moreover, we see the other five planets also retrograde at times, and
stationary at either end [of the regression]. And whereas the sun
always advances along its own direct path, they wander in various
ways, straying sometimes to the south and sometimes to the north; that
is why they are called "planets" [wanderers]." Copernicus

These words by Copernicus are as vibrant to an astronomer as they
ever were and so is the resolution -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html






Some followers of astronomy as well as some followers of religion
sometimes feel a need to defend and to convince others of their
respective views -- particularly their views in areas such as those
mentioned above in which great differences often exist.  These are
areas in which there is no room for compromise beyond the possibility
of both sides being wrong.


Both sides are missing the one thing necessary - intuitive
intelligence or the ability to love what is best be it as a Christian
or as an investigator of terrestrial/celestial phenomena.


History is yet another reason.  Bruno, Copernicus, and Galileo
immediately come to mind . . .

We might be able to sum it up as 'human nature'.

Bill Greer
To sketch is to see.

When people get around to affirming what Coperniucs actually
achieved,and Galileo clearly understood,then they can start talking
about religion but they believe a propfoundly stupid view of Newton in
the matter where geocentricity and heliocentricity meet at apparent
retrogrades -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct.." Newton

Astronomers are judged on the basis of their understanding and so far
each and every one of you have failed to grasp the implications of
getting the main argument wrong or rather,failing to grasp that the
Earth's own orbital motion supplies the resolution for
retrogrades.That is why empiricism is a cult because its members
cannot even conceive that Newton, the guy who introduced it to the
world by hijacking astronomy, could not grasp the reasoning himself.

In short,the level of scientific and religious thinking is at such a
low ebb that in matters where intuitive intelligence is required ,such
as astronomy and evolutionary sciences,that they may as well not exist
at all considering the cartoon junk dumped into the celestial and
terrestrial arena at the moment.



.

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