Re: abandon space, concentrate on living underground first

Here's another article:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061025184743.htm

Take note of the radiation hazards faced by astronauts.

Look at what is proposed for "storm shelters". Sound familiar?

-Jack Hammonton

<mommycalled@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4cbe54e9-673b-4a25-b052-53d8f149aad1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mar 20, 6:21 pm, "Jack Hammonton" <hammontj...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Begging your pardon here guys, but this guy (Jake) is trying to convey a
few
useful concepts with the big one being radiation concerns. A few mm of
gold
isn't going to do it for permanent colonies anywhere beyond Earth, so I'm
not sure where this false idea comes from. It may be ok for temporary
travel, but you'd still have to watch out for active solar storms and
radiation headed in your direction. Even scientists considering a moonbase
have been considering base construction inside lava flows to help protect
against cosmic radiation. So, saying it isn't a problem when it is doesn't
make sense. Going underground on Earth would serve as a training phase for
when the actual underground environment would eventually be needed.

- Jack Hammonton

<mommycal...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:ad7d1354-cd47-4ed8-80b1-80cd548ab756@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mar 20, 3:55 am, "Jake Barnes" <z141...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



<mommycal...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

"Don't work for NASA or NOAA or any other agency, I just learned
freshman physics and have taken the time to go the library and read
the information
that is publicly availablel......"

Seems you still didn't call your mummy to check on whether or not you're
reading science or science fiction. I think the latter.

"Seems that scientists (yeah I know as far
you are concerned that makes them stupid and biased) knew all the way
back to the 1960's (almost 50 years ago) about the problems of
radiation in space. Seems they also took the time to learn how to
protect space travelers. Seems that aluminum and polyethylene seem to
work really well and is what is used on ISS to provide shielding.
(oops guess you missed the problem of shielding on ISS didn't you?).
Curious to note that Gold protects astronauts on the moon and in outer
space. As a high energy radiation shield, gold goes into space suits
and on capsules. A mere 0.000006 of an inch of gold coats rocket
engines, electronic systems, helmets, visors, tether lines; yet
because gold is such a marvelous reflector, that is enough to protect
the astronauts and equipment from radiation and deflects the burning
heat of the sun....."

Hey Grandma, mommy called and thinks I'm talking about reflecting the
heat
of the sun. He decided to paint his matchbox toys with Aunt Bee's gold,
which he melted down this afternoon. Aunt Bee's going to be pissed when
she
realizes he needed a lot more than her gold to stop cosmic radiation
over
an
extended period of time.

"The lunar modules of the Apollo program that put men
on the moon were shrouded with gold foil acting as a radiation shield
and gold that thin is only slightly less effective than lead as a
gamma/x-ray shield......"

Mothers don't always know best, cyberspace mothers that is. When a PC is
responsible for creating a mommy, we get answers like this.

"Once again you prove to be troll because when
facts are presented that prove you are way out in left field you
resort to the trolls best weapon after spouting bovine excrement, ad
hominem attacks "You probably work for NASA or some other organization
that continues to waste money on little returns." The biggest waste of
money is allowing you access to the internet."

Hey Uncle ***, mommy called again and she's badmouthing me. What should
I
do? "Toss the phone in the trash can Nephew Jake." Ok, Uncle ***, done.
I won't be hearing from mommy troll anymore. "Good Riddins".

So documentation of what has been used to protect past and present
space travelers and doesn't influence your thinking, basic physics
doesn't influence your thinking, you whine about about being
mistreated "Instead of making snide remarks, why not help with some
solutions", "Thanks a million! If you have any other helpful
suggestions or commentary be sure to post them here," after posting
some truly bogus information. Had you ever given a thought to why
people were laughing at you rather than with you?

Let's try a little science. From
Bibliographic Code: 1990STIN...9017535T


Title: Estimates of galactic cosmic ray shielding requirements during
solar minimum
Authors: Townsend, Lawrence W.; Nealy, John E.; Wilson, John W.;
Simonsen, Lisa C.
Abstract::
Estimates of radiation risk from galactic cosmic rays are presented
for manned interplanetary missions. The calculations use the Naval
Research Laboratory cosmic ray spectrum model as input into the
Langley Research Center galactic cosmic ray transport code. This
transport code, which transports both heavy ions and nucleons, can be
used with any number of layers of target material, consisting of up to
five different arbitrary constituents per layer. Calculated galactic
cosmic ray fluxes, dose and dose equivalents behind various
thicknesses of aluminum, water and liquid hydrogen shielding are
presented for the solar minimum period. Estimates of risk to the skin
and the blood-forming organs (BFO) are made using 0-cm and 5-cm depth
dose/dose equivalent values, respectively, for water. These results
indicate that at least 3.5 g/sq cm (3.5 cm) of water, or 6.5 g/sq cm
(2.4 cm) of aluminum, or 1.0 g/sq cm (14 cm) of liquid hydrogen
shielding is required to reduce the annual exposure below the
currently recommended BFO limit of 0.5 Sv. Because of large
uncertainties in fragmentation parameters and the input cosmic ray
spectrum, these exposure estimates may be uncertain by as much as a
factor of 2 or more. The effects of these potential exposure
uncertainties or shield thickness requirements are analyzed.

Then there is

Title:
Modelling human exposure to space radiation with different shielding:
the FLUKA code coupled with anthropomorphic phantoms

Authors: Ballarini, F.; Alloni, D.; Battistoni, G.; Cerutti, F.;
Ferrari, A.; Gadioli, E.; Garzelli, M. V.; Liotta, M.; Mairani, A.;
Ottolenghi, A.; Paretzke, H. G.; Parini, V.; Pelliccioni, M.; Pinsky,
L.; Sala, P.; Scannicchio, D.; Trovati, S.; Zankl, M.

DOI: 10.1088/1742-6596/41/1/012
Bibliographic Code: 2006JPhCS..41..135B

Abstract:
stronauts' exposure to the various components of the space radiation
field is of great concern for long-term missions, especially for those
in deep space such as a possible travel to Mars. Simulations based on
radiation transport/interaction codes coupled with anthropomorphic
model phantoms can be of great help in view of risk evaluation and
shielding optimisation, which is therefore a crucial issue. The FLUKA
Monte Carlo code can be coupled with two types of anthropomorphic
phantom (a mathematical model and a ''voxel'' model) to calculate
organ-averaged absorbed dose, dose equivalent and ''biological'' dose
under different shielding conditions. Herein the ''biological dose''
is represented by the average number of ''Complex Lesions'' (CLs) per
cell in a given organ. CLs are clustered DNA breaks previously
calculated by means of event-by-event track structure simulations at
the nm level and integrated on-line into FLUKA, which adopts a
condensed-history approach; such lesions have been shown to play a
fundamental role in chromosome aberration induction, which in turn can
be correlated with carcinogenesis. Examples of calculation results
will be presented relative to Galactic Cosmic Rays, as well as to the
August 1972 Solar Particle Event. The contributions from primary ions
and secondary particles will be shown separately, thus allowing
quantification of the role played by nuclear reactions occurring in
the shield and in the human body itself. As expected, the SPE doses
decrease dramatically with increasing the Al shielding thickness;
nuclear reaction products, essentially due to target fragmentation,
are of minor importance. A 10 g/cm2 Al shelter resulted to be
sufficient to respect the 30-day limits for deterministic effects
recommended for missions in Low Earth Orbit. In contrast with the
results obtained for SPEs, the calculated GCR doses are almost
independent of the Al shield thickness, and the GCR doses to internal
organs are not significantly lower than the skin doses. Furthermore,
nuclear interactions play a much larger role for GCR than for SPE
doses.


Executive Summary:

The problem of radiation exposure both short duration(moon flights)
and longer duration (Mars flights) is a well known and well studied
problem.Cosmic rays come in two forms heavy nuclei and light nuclei.
Light nuclei cosmic rays pass unhindered through the body only heavy
nuclei cosmic rays are the problem. For short duration flights a thin
gold coating provides sufficient protection. For longer duration 2.5
cm of Aluminum reduces exposure below accepted exposure dosages,
although other materials such as polyethylene may prove superior due
to the lack of secondary emissions

This is case of a fool walking into a bar full of policeman and
shooting this a holdup. You don't go into an astronomy and space
science group spout nonsense about moving underground and giving
spaceflight, then declare that nobody knows as much as you do and then
expect to be treated with respect.
A simple Google scholar search will provide a wealth of information
thgt is clearly lacking here.


.