Re: Those of us trying to help Kelleher

On Apr 16, 9:27 am, oriel36 <kelleher.ger...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:30 pm, "dkel...@xxxxxxxxxxx" <dkel...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
---snip---

It is clear in all the pictures you have shown and all
that others on SAA that the seasons are the result
of the tilt of the earth, relative to the plane of the orbit and
the orbital motion that cause the seasons.
It is also clear that both northern and southern hemispheres
have different extremes of season because of the eliptical
nature of the orbit
The equation of time is a clumsy way to take an accurate
time and correlate that to the Earths daily time that the
sun is directly over head. This can also be calculated by
knowing the tilt, the eliptical nature of the orbit and the angle
between the tilt and the eliptical major axis.
Most everyone on this list knows these things and can
observe these things. I have tried in the past to see what
strange way you look at these things and find that others
can't understand.

Dwight,you are a champion and I would not dare offend you as you mean
no harm.

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/sun/images/high_low_sun.gif

Your idea of 'tilt' originates from Copernicus who said that the
Earth's axis/Equator had a variable inclination to cause that summer/
winter effect you see in the graphic above and that if the rotational
orientation/tilt was at 90 deg perpendicular to the Sun there would be
no seasons.

The tilt would seem to vary if taken relative to the Sun but does not
vary ( except on a long time scale due to precession ) relative to
an inertial frame of reference. The tilt held constant relative to the
inertial
frame of reference would change angles relative to the Sun, over the
sidereal year cycle around the sun, just as we see it do.


The first thing you should notice is that between the summer and
winter extremes as the apparent arc of the Sun is high or low there
would be the Equinox.The Equinox is the event where effectively all
locations on the planet experience the same conditions that exist at
the Equator all year around.So Dwight,as the Equator has no seasons
and the 'tilt' is fixed to Polaris there has to be another dynamic

Of course, the orbit of the Earth and the elliptical nature of that
orbit
also are necessary in creating the seasons. But so is the tilt part
of the creation of the seasons.

behind seasonal variations and that is when you look at the unique
planet that is Uranus and then make planetary comparisons with the
Earth and then work it all out.

This is not true, the Equator only sees that the Sun rises and sets
at
the same locations each day. It is not true that the Sun follows the
same arc each day. The Equator sees the same shift, North and South
of the arc of the Sun as I see here in Northern California or as seen
in Australia. It also experiences solar noon offsets as I do as well.
If as you say, it does not do this, can you explain why there is
no difference in these parameters, regardless of if I'm in Northern
or Southern California. Do the rules for the rest of the world
suddenly
stop as I step on the equator?
The Equator would see the most Sun light and heat when the sun
was directly over head during the Solar noon. This would only happen
twice a year at the two Equinox. At other times, the Sun would be
at angles during the day and in a sense produce a seasonal change.
To say it has a winter and summer would be incorrect but to say
it has no seasons would also be incorrect. It has distinctly different
Solar light per square foot of surface at different times of the year.
What makes you believe otherwise?
Try holding a ball with a line around it and shine a light on it.
tilt the ball relative to the sun as it would be for winter or summer.
hold a tooth pick such that it case no shadow when it is local
noon. Notice that the tooth pick is at an angle to the plane of the
line you'd defined as equator. You don't need to depend on any
statement by me or any long dead astronomer, just run the
experiment your self.
It is also not true that at the equinox, all locations on the Earth
would experience the same as the equator. I've seen it said that
the Sun's shadow would follow a strait line on a flat surface.
This is not really true on a planetary scale. It would follow
a line of longitude, which we know is not truly strait but curves
around the Earth. In the Northern hemisphere it curves
to the North and in the Southern hemisphere it curves to the
south, relative to a strait line.



Now,Dwight,all this dithering around variable tilt to the Sun or
orbital plane is not going to help future generations deal with the
enormous problem which they will inherit just as we have.

I never said it had a variable tilt relative to the plane of the
orbit.
In fact it has a constant angle relative to the orbital plane. It does
not
dither around. It is quite fixed to an inertial frame, as would be
expected for an object of the size of the Earth.

---snip some more ---

Your best bet is go back and look at the summer/winter high and low
trajectory and then think about the Equinox just as I have told
you.Only then can you start to consider that it is the specific way
the Earth orbits the Sun that accounts for the seasons and the
variations in the natural noon cycle when allied with daily rotation.

As I stated, I fully understand the causes of the high and low
trajectory
during summer and winter. I also know what causes the solar noon
to move before and after local noon as measured with a clock
that keeps constant time.
The explanation of the tilt of the Earth requires no astrological
reference.
It only requires an inertial reference to explain all. No stars are
required!
It is handy to use stars as reference points because their angular
motion
is so small relative to an inertial reference but it does not require
that
we use them.
Can you explain exactly what the term equinox means for different
locations
North and South of the equator? It would seem that we may have
different
definitions. The only one I know of is that the Sun would rise and set
directly East and West and that it would pass directly ( 90 degrees )
over
head, at local noon, if one were at the equator.


I will pretty much leave this forum to its own astrological devices
from here on in as you all are descendents of the same people who
tried so hard to block Harrison in his endeavor to create accurate
watches which maintain the correlation between clocks,terrestrial
longitudes and daily rotation as 24 hours/360 degrees,the most
fundamental correlation in all astronomy for daily rotation through
360 degrees without an external reference.

Our genetic heritage has nothing to do with the our understand of the
seasons.
I doubt I have any genetic connection to the few that were involved
with
the troubles Harrison had. In fact I have in the past depended on the
methods he founded in order to do navigation. I doubt we have but
one or two people,( if that ) that are genetically related to anyone
that
even knew about Harrison when he was alive, that post to SAA.
Dwight


.

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