Re: Oriel -- Let me get your opinion

On Aug 19, 5:35 am, skyguy <sky...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Aug 18, 8:06 am, skyguy <sky...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

So tell us how you would chart a course from the earth to the moon (or
to any object in the solar system) without using the mathematics of
orbital mechanics. I suppose you would just blast off in any arbitrary
direction or velocity relying on 'geometry' and 'modern imaging' to take
you there.

All you have proven is that you are miserable empirical creeps before
the original insight and the method of Kepler  by which the
correlation between planetary orbital periods and distance from the
Sun are determined,even with modern imaging refreshingly making the
orbital comparison between Earth and Mars using the background
constellations as a gauge,you still appeal with pathetic 'orbital
mechanics'  based on the calendar driven Ra/Dec system.

Struck a nerve? You're not permitted to use the background
constellations as a gauge. That would violate your doctrine of refusing
to recognize other frames of reference for determining relative motion
in the universe.


Here is what you do,go to the Armagh observatory in the U.K. where
there is a giant human orrery outside -

http://www.arm.ac.uk/orrery/orrery_view02.jpg

Bring Kepler's Panis Quadragesimalis with you -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kepler_Mars_retrograde.jpg

Walk in the orbit of the Earth with somebody else walking in the orbit
of Mars.On the outside of that orrery are the repesentations of the
constellations so that if you look at Mars moving against the
constellations that is what you will see represented in Kepler's
diagram however the translation into planetary dynamics is dropping
reference to the stellar background and looking at orbital comparisons
using the Earth orbital motion through space to resolve the apparent
backward motion of Mars against the stellar background.

It is happening at the moment as Jupiter moves in the opposite
direction as seen against the stellar background but resolved by a
faster orbitally moving Earth -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

This is enjoyable stuff but I assure you if you bring that stupid 17th
century numbskull's idiosyncratic take on retrogrades to that
orrery,you will discover it does not work -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct, " Newton









http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kepler_Mars_retrograde.jpg

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

A genuine astronomer goes outside tonight and looks at Jupiter with
the same eyes as the great astronomers once did for as the Earth has
just overtaken Jupiter at it closest point with the luminosity at its
greatest (see time lapse footage) the apparent retrograde will
continue for a few months as the Jupiter recedes in the distance from
the Earth quicker moving orbit.The effort to understand the
relationship  relies strictly on the relationship between our orbital
position and Jupiter's with the central Sun and it means dropping all
ideas of the relationship between Jupiter and the motions of the
constellations around Polaris otherwise known as Ra/Dec observing.

Understanding the theory of retrograde motion of the superior planets
does not require using the celestial coordinate system. It is however
helpful to use the Ra/Dec system for tracking retrograde motion.


You want to stick with an utterly stupid view of retrogrades then good
for you,I still have to find people who are willing to jettison the
junk astronomy which attached itself to the great Western astronomical
insight in terms of planetary dynamics which resolved retrogrades -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct, " Newton

I take no enjoyment in taking that numbskull to pieces but do enjoy
how modern imaging lights up the texts of the great astronomers.









All it takes is to match up the 21st century time lapse footage with
Kepler's late 16th century rendition of the motion of Mars as seen
from an orbitally moving Earth  to consign that empirical fraud to the
oblivion where it belongs -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean
distances from the sun." Newton

I ask for nothing only that genuine people go outside and take into
account that Jupiter will appear to move backwards against the stellar
background until the middle of October and then  it will begin to move
in the opposite direction as the Earth's orbital motion through space
and the overtaking perspective diminishes with distance.Then they will
discover what planetary dynamics and structural astronomy is all about
geometry and good judgement.

If we are not permitted to use the position of the background stars to
determine motions such as the rotational period of the earth, how would
you know whether Jupiter is moving forward or backward without those
background stars as a reference? You can't have it both ways.


Let me guess,you can't find your way through the arguments which gauge
planetary orbital periods against the stellar background and then
transfer them directly into planetary dynamics as genuine astronomers
do -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

"For this permits a not inattentive student to perceive why the
forward and backward arcs appear greater in Jupiter than in Saturn and
smaller than in Mars, and on the other hand greater in Venus than in
Mercury. This reversal in direction appears more frequently in Saturn
than in Jupiter, and also more rarely in Mars and Venus than in
Mercury." Copernicus

No hypothetical observer on the Sun/absolute space as Newton has
it ,just a genuine appreciation by going outside and figuring out why
the rotation of the stars around Polaris is ignored in respect to
planetary dynamics and why Saturn goes into retrograde move frequently
than Jupiter,Jupiter more frequently than Mars due to the Earth
orbital motion through space.








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