Re: Earth rotation

From: Oriel36 (geraldkelleher_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 06/26/04 

Date: 26 Jun 2004 05:49:02 -0700

"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message news:<2k3v47F173pb4U1@uni-berlin.de>...

My only enemy is laziness rather than anyone in particular.I will
freely bring up and discuss the analemmatic images you use to support
the false contention that constant axial rotation through 360 degrees
is 23 hours 56 min 04 sec by way of stellar circumpolar motion and
more importantly,you include axial tilt as a component in the Equation
of Time.

You brought up the analemma and with only a single exception most of
the websites trade in the same falsehoods.

http://www.longwoodgardens.org/Sundial/Analemma.html

Of particular interest, in that the original use of the analemma only
refered to the lenght of shadow cast at noon as the Earth rotates to
face the Sun directly along its axial longitude coordinates,there is
no figure 8.

"Analemma in ancient writers denotes those sort of sun-dials which
shew only the height of the sun at noon, every day, by the largeness
of the shadow of the gnomon....If, then, analemma once referred to an
instrument which focused on the recording of noon time shadows, the
transition to an instrument which does the same under the "new"
definition of the time is an easy one to make."

> "Oriel36" <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:273f8e06.0406241153.33c6abdc@posting.google.com...
> >> Geocentricity,soup to nuts !.
>
> What???
>

You are bound to consider the motions of the Earth - axial and orbital
as two distinct and seperate motions.

 1 - The Earth axial rotation and axial/equatorial orientation as a
distinct and seperate motion

http://ottawa.rasc.ca/pictures/pdelorme/polaris.jpg

That time lapse image taken against the Polaris star tells you that
axial and equatorial orientation remains constant throughout an annual
orbit.The 'Polaris' stellar circumpolar effect is an illusion
generated by the Earth's axial rotation and insofar as it is useful in
gauging constant axial/equatorial orientation,it should NOT be used as
an indicator for equatorial orientation to the Sun.

Let's take a look at the analemma image -

http://www.wengersundial.com/Analemma/analemma.jpg

You are assuming that the Earth's equatorial orientation to the Sun
changes but as already stated,equatorial orientation is a property of
the Earth axial orientation as an independent motion which remains
constant throughout its annual orbit.The Earth does not tilt towards
and way from the Sun as an independent motion,what occurs is that the
Earth's ORBITAL orientation changes over the course of an annual
orbit.

Clearly stated,the Earth's orbital orientation causes the change in
seasons rather than any property of the Earth's axial tilt which
maintains constant orientation.

>
> > The Earth's axis remains orientated,over the course of an annual
> > orbit,to Polaris.
>
> Yup!
>

Good !.

http://ottawa.rasc.ca/pictures/pdelorme/polaris.jpg

 
> > Now genius,figure this out.
> >
> > If axial orientation is constant and the Earth orbits the Sun,you
> > conclude that it is the change in the daylight/darkness line as a
> > property of the Earth's orbital orientation which causes the
> > hemispherical diiference in seasons (summer in Southern/winter in
> > northern and visa versa).
>
> or vice versa
>
> > The following graphic will not show you how the daylight/darkness line
> > as a property of orbital orientation shifts against the Earth's axis
> > (which remains constantly orientated to Polaris over an annual orbit)
> > but you will have to assume it.
> <links snipped>
> > You will notice that the daylight/darkness line as a property of
> > orbital orientation changes in accordance with Kepler's second law
> > subsequently it is this orbital motion of the Earth,assuming constant
> > axial rotation, that generates the natural unequal day.
>
> Agreed - so glad you agree that the sun-at-noon day is unequal
>

A geometer phrases it as the rotational asymmetry due to constant
axial rotation moving through variable orbital motion.

> > Axial tilt or equatorial orientation to the Sun changes the asymmetry
> > between daylight/darkness however it has absolutely no effect on the
> > total lenght of a day from noon to noon and the Equation of Time
> > equalises that variation from one rotation to the next.
>
> Agreed - the time between the noon and noon on consecutive days is nothing
> to do with axial inclination.
>

Consecutive rotations to be precise,As axial orientation neither
accelerates or retards the return of axial longitude coordinates back
to the Sun/Earth line (noon),the variation can only be due to the
shift in the orbital orientation to the Sun/Earth line.

I have spoken of orbital orientation and thought it was clear enough
but apparently this looks mysterious to some when it clearly is not.

The arrows in the following image reflect the seperate orbital motion
of the Earth and the division between equal amounts of daylight and
darkness as a property of the Earth's orbital orientation to the
Sun.The behavior of the shift in the division between
daylight/darkness throughout an annual orbit is in accordance with
Kepler's second law of planetary motion.

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronomy/fix/student/images/04f15.jpg

http://www.users.muohio.edu/primacag/images/earth%20from%20space.gif

Even without knowing what caused the unequal lenght of a day as
measured by one axial rotation through 360 degrees wrt the Sun to the
next,our astronomical ancestors crafted the 24 hour/360 degree
longitude system to the assumption that axial rotation is constant via
the Equation of Time correction.In the 21st century we can see that it
is not only the effect of constant axial rotation moving through
variable orbital motion,but how the orbital orientation changes in
accordance with Kepler'ssecond law.

 
> > The analemma or basically what the geocentric motions of the Sun look
> > like from the perspective of a 24 hour clock is astronomical fraud
>
> What do you mean when you say it is a fraud?
>

Ah,Flamsteed !.

As axial rotation was already assumed to be constant by way of the 24
hour/360 degrees longitude equivalency and the Equation of Time
correction,Flamsteed creates a fraud by piggybacking on that existing
assumption and linking the Earth's rotation directly to stellar
circumpolar motion.

The sheer brilliance of our ancestors exists in the fact that they did
not opt for equable stellar circumpolar motion for the Earth's axial
rotation through 360 degrees because there is no such correlation.The
vandalism wrought by Flamsteed was to use the already existing
principles which condition the equable pace of a 24 hour clock and
subsequently the equable hour,minute and second and force it into
stellar circumpolar motion linked directly to the Earth's axial
rotation.

http://astrosun2.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses//astro201/sidereal.htm

He forces an equable orbital positional displacement for the Earth as
.986 degrees which puts it in direct conflict with Kepler's second
law.if you are so sure that the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56m in 04
seconds you can swap the positions of the Earth and the Sun in the
above image and that is how you are getting your result.The price is
the destruction of the astronomy of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.

> > ,fit for people who know no better.It is a foolish attempt to
> > neutralise the orbital effects of Kepler's second law on the lenght of
> > a day as the Earth axially rotates through that variable orbital
> > motion.
>
> Please explain what you mean by this
>
> > > I don't see how you can deny that the Earth moves through 360 degrees in
> > > 23:56:04.
> > >
> > > Did you see Anthony Ayiomamitis' incredible analemma picture on APOD on
> > > Monday?
> > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040621.html
> >
> > How wonderful,the Sun does the hula just for you notwithstanding that
> > the Earth's axial orientation remains constant,again figure it out
> > yourself,who knows,you might even get to enjoy the utter bollox the
> > cataloguers (they certainly were'nt astronomers like Copernicus,Kepler
> > and Roemer) made of astronomy in the late 17th century.
> >
> > No offense but the only opponent I have is intellectual laziness and
> > the inability to go outside and truly comprehend the insights of
> > Copernicus and Kepler in terms of the motions of the Earth.
>
> You might also consider yourself your own 'virtual opponent' in that people
> ignore you if you fail to address their arguments.
>

I am not given to condescension,what I will say is that the material
is not through carefully enough.As Newton ultimately adopts
Flamsteed's view,it is well worth the effort to see where Newton is
partially correct and then goes astray at the Equation of Time,the
link between geometry,astronomy and the pace of a clock
day,hour,minute and second.

Here is where he is correct

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the
equation or correlation of the vulgar time. For the natural days are
truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used
for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their
more accurate deducing of the celestial motions"

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/definitions.htm#time

Here is where he combines the original correct intepretation with
Flamsteed's incorrect assumption.

".. by means of the astronomical equation. The necessity of which
equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as
well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the
satellites of Jupiter"

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/definitions.htm#time

Here is where he ultimately adopts Flamsteed's incorrection
astronomical justification and transfers the axial rotational/stellar
circumpolar equivalency to the geocentric/heliocentric orbital
equivalency.

"PHÆNOMENON IV.
That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean
distances from the sun.

This proportion, first observed by Kepler, is now received by all
astronomers; for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions
of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth,
or the earth about the sun. And as to the measures of the periodic
times, all astronomers are agreed about them. But for the dimensions
of the orbits, Kepler and Bullialdus, above all others, have
determined them from observations with the greatest accuracy; and the
mean distances corresponding to the periodic times differ but
insensibly from those which they have assigned, and for the most part
fall in between them; as we may see from the following table."

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm

I will simplify what the consequences were.Before Newton/Flamsteed,the
motions of the primary planets and their satellites were calculated
without any reference to stellar circumpolar motion or a celestial
sphere,Newton expanding on Flamsteed botched the astronomical
translations from geocentric observations to heliocentric modelling by
borrowing on the the brilliant insights of Kepler and Roemer.Newton
misread and frankly did'nt understand what Roemer was doing but
applied Roemer's method to all planetary motion specifically Roemer's
assumption that the anomalous motion of Io had a mean motion and
Roemer accounted for the anomalous motion through a non local solution
of the variation in distance between the orbits of Jupiter and Earth
in terms of finite light distance.

"The necessity of which equation [of Time], for determining the times
of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the
pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter"

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/definitions.htm#time

Here is Roemer's proper use of the Equation of Time a year before
Flamsteed came up with his ridiculous notion that constant axial
rotation through 360 degrees can be linked to the celestial sphere.

http://dibinst.mit.edu/BURNDY/OnlinePubs/Roemer/chapter3(part2).html

 

> > As for your analemma,well,it is like the constellations and the
> > celestial sphere,a product of men who know no better and who have yet
> > to grasp the scale and majesty of the known Universe.Somehow when the
> > silly homocentricity passes away along with the attempt to make the
> > 'laws of physics' and equations the only thing,men will get back to
> > doing astronomy,a great thing for man and humanity.
>
> If you have greater understanding and awareness of the universe than others
> you have a positive duty to explain it to the rest of us in terms that WE
> will understand. Remember, if people don't understand you its YOUR fault
> (not theirs). I taught for 5 years, and know this to be true. Conversely you
> need to accept that your view may need modification in the light of others'
> insight.
>

These are first principles,get the basic rotation rate of the Earth
wrong and it affects all ahead of it.None of this is original in the
sense that the development of clocks in tandem with geometry,astronomy
and the Earth's motions is well documented and takes up most of the
energy of astronomers in from the 16th to the 18th century.Neither is
Flamsteed's premise,if you find that you can determine constant axial
rotation via stellar circumpolar motion and this is plain wrong.

Newton's astronomical outlook is almost perverse for he mixes Roemer's
insight with Flamsteed's.We know today that the Sun rotates while
Newton imagines that you can view the motion of the planets directly
as the Sun remains stationary .He is correct that finite light
distance effects the motion of the Earth towards the perehelion and
away to the aphelion and I do take this into account as a variable in
the Equation of Time affecting determination of natural
noon.(presently it would complicate matters).

"PHÆNOMENON V.
Then the primary planets, by radii drawn to the earth, describe areas
no wise proportional to the times; but that the areas which they
describe by radii drawn to the sun are proportional to the times of
description.

For to the earth they appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary,
nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen
direct, and to proceed with a motion nearly uniform, that is to say, a
little swifter in the perihelion and a little slower in the aphelion
distances, so as to maintain an equality in the description of the
areas. This a noted proposition among astronomers, and particularly
demonstrable in Jupiter, from the eclipses of his satellites; by the
help of which eclipses, as we have said, the heliocentric longitudes
of that planet, and its distances from the sun, are determined."
Principia

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm

> Dd you do the exercise I suggested (with Cartes de Ciel)?

You live in a universe of analemmas,celestial spheres,curved
universe(s), where the rotation of the universe round the Earth is
valid and whatever exotic nonsense you can shock people with,most of
it is based on an astronomical fraud (1677) that precedes Newton and
the Principia (1687) but certainly influences that work.

It can be as simple as determining how the 24 hour clock emerged from
the motions of the Earth or as complicated as expanding into Newton to
see where the error occured by the vandalism wrought on
centuries,nay,milliena of careful observation and exquisite
reasoning.Either way, complicated or simple,unwittingly or
wittingly,humanity however indifferent to astronomy cannot support
fraud and see it repackaged as a human 'achievement',be it
Flamsteed,Newton or any concept that followed.

This posting will suffice for all the others in this thread

Relevant Pages

  • Re: non relativist / non aetherist reply
    ... > | the Earth axially rotates out of its orbital shadow) and you will ... > | the Sun. ... motion.You view the circumpolar motion of the stars in this light ... assumes axial rotation to be constant and equalises all the variables ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Starmapping software
    ... rotation of the Earth is careless and false. ... Celestial sphere geometers work off a system based on 3 years of 365 ... based on the annual motion of the Earth with a leap correction every ... 4th year and when the axial rotation of the Earth was discovered as an ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: Letter of Copernicus to Pope Paul
    ... It is the actual time it takes the Earth to ... astronomical matters justify axial rotation as a different value than ... motion are based on the wrong value for axial rotation,the sidereal ... the faith of good Christians while denominational Christianity remains ...
    (soc.culture.irish)
  • Re: milky way
    ... Constellations are illusionary stellar circumpolar images generated by ... the axial rotation and orientation of the Earth subsequently they are ... distant galactic axis but our motion about the galactic axis with the ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: Equatorial orbital beacon
    ... sequence of images of Uranus is an overlooked motion ... Uranus pointed in one direction in space and that is all. ... The change in the orientation of the rings with respect ... constant axial rotation, ...
    (sci.astro)
Loading