Re: SR time dilation on remote objects ?

From: vonroach (hadrainc_at_earthlink.net)
Date: 07/14/04 

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:14:09 GMT

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:51:56 +0200, Bjoern Feuerbacher
<feuerbac@thphys.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

>Marcel Luttgens wrote:
>> "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<5dSIc.48746$oh.26841@lakeread05>...
>>
>>>Dear Marcel Luttgens:
>>>
>>>"Marcel Luttgens" <mluttgens@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
>>>news:86996cba.0407130234.237d200d@posting.google.com...
>>>...
>>>
>>>>I am claiming that no time slowing effect on SN can be due to space
>>>>expansion. What happens is a reddening of light due to their enormous
>>>>gravitational potential (phi(SN) = -G*Mass(SN)/Radius(SN). Of course,
>>>>this reddening is time dependent, as the SN quickly expand.
>>>>Btw, this gravitational reddening doesn't seem to have been taken
>>>>into account by the cosmologists.
>>>
>>>The Type I supernovae is very limited as to the size of the solar mass.
>>>Its behavior is characteristic. It was chosen because they all behave the
>>>same (and since this is a value judgement, there is noise in the
>>>accumulated data).
>>
>>
>> Much noise.
>
>How much noise?
>
>
>
>>>Local examples all have similar rise and fall in
>>>intensity. More distant ones have similar rise and fall in intensity, but
>>>the time scale is stretched. The stretching of duration is very closely
>>>related with the red shift.
>>
>>
>> It should be. The stretching of the time scale cannot be attributed to
>> space expansion,
>
>Why not? Have you ever actually looked at the calculation?
>
>
>> but to local factors like the very high density of the
>> SN and the velocity of its expansion.

This is ambiguous: the rate of expansion of space? Or the rate of
expansion of the supernova (which is collapsing, not expanding). The
supernova is actually losing some mass in the collapse, and this
should decrease the expansion of space surrounding it.

>Please give us some actual numbers.
>
>And explain why the red shift increases with the distance to the SN.
>
>Additionally, if the shift were a Doppler shift due to the velocity
>of the expansion, it should be a *blue* shift, since we can obviously
>only see the stuff moving towards us!

Why do you conclude this. The star is collapsing (surface moving
away). Only part of `debris' from the little bang should be moving
toward us.

>
snip exchanged insults

Relevant Pages

  • Re: SR time dilation on remote objects ?
    ... > expansion of the supernova (which is collapsing, ... >>And explain why the red shift increases with the distance to the SN. ... The star is collapsing (surface moving ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Re: Minister sits on damning report on impact of Heathrow noise
    ... Government is attempting to conceal while it plans the expansion of ... at Heathrow has grown from 273,000 in 1982 to 477,000 last year. ... If you don't want noise, don't buy a house near an airport. ... What about airport expansions and increased flights which contribute ...
    (uk.transport)
  • Re: Our Expanding Universe
    ... > Dear George Dishman: ... > I'd rather say "expansion is negigible when you cannot differentiate ... > between expansion and noise". ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Re: Mathemagickal Dullskuggery
    ... expansion is not present in wave motions in the solar system. ... I don;t know why you are so sure that there is no fancescan doppler. ... The predicted shift is way above measurement ... basic idea is that the more accurate our measurements of position (as ...
    (uk.business.agriculture)
  • Re: SR time dilation on remote objects ?
    ... The stretching of the time scale cannot be attributed to ... > SN and the velocity of its expansion. ... And explain why the red shift increases with the distance to the SN. ...
    (sci.astro)