Re: Why it's Obvious the Tendril is a Water Feature

From: Jonathan (jon_at_listserv.gsfc)
Date: 09/04/04 

Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:14:08 -0400

"Andy Baker" <respond@the.news.gr.oup> wrote in message
news:14_Zc.6960$2s.5309@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

This reply is barely worth responding to.

> Dude, I don't think the pot has much to do with this, it's the crack - OK
> see.... you're in the bottom of a stadium sized crater in the middle of a
> big flat plain

Oh really! No it's not, the rover is in a dried up thermal spring that
fed a shallow sea. Look at the pics below, can you see where
the waves were breaking against the outside of the crater?

Endurance Crater
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/119/1N138744629EFF2809P1987R0M1.JPG
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/111/1N138039382EFF2600P1986R0M1.HTML

Then look at this pic for comparison.

The Stromatolites of Stella Maris, Bahamas
http://www.theflyingcircus.com/stella_maris.html

Now compare the following pics, are you going to claim the
distinct erosion pattern shown in the /shadows/ are from
the ...swirling wind....

Yellowstone mudpot
http://www.nps.gov/yell/slidefile/thermalfeatures/mudpots/midwaylower/images/05402.jpg

Endurance mudpot
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2004-07-16/1P143185259EFF3221P2397R1M1.JPG

> - no doubt that the wind really whips through there on
> occasion.

The wind would swirl in a hole, very insightful. The grass is also
green, and the sky is blue.

> There's probably a prevailing direction, but it can come from any
> direction. Back to the point of the crater

I was talking about the tendril. Do you read before replying?

In the following pic do you see the mound that the tendrils flow
towards? What was that mound? A geyser or a fumarole?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/190/1N145050754EFF3491P1966L0M1.HTML

Do you know what the specialty is of the Nasa's most learned in geology/astrobiology?
Have you even heard of Yellowstone?

Jack D. Farmer

"Currently, Jack is the Director and Principal Investigator of the NASA funded
Astrobiology Program at Arizona State University, he leads the NASA
Astrobiology Institute's Mars Focus Group and is on the Executive
Board of the NASA Astrobiology Institute. He holds appointments
on various NASA committees including the Space Science Advisory Committee,
Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group, Instrumentation for Mars Exploration
Working Group, Mars Ad hoc Science Team, Mars 2003 Landing Site Steering
Committee, Mars 2005 Orbiter Mission Science Definition Team......"
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/biography/pro.html

When you've read what Dr Farmer has to say, then you're qualified
for this discussion. Reading is fundamental, please respond after
you've learned how to spell 'hydrothermal'.

Dr. Farmer's Online Publication Reprints
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/

Jonathan

s

 - as the wind is whipping by on
> the plain, it dips down in to the crater, and these things called EDDY
> CURRENTS - here's a picture -
> http://www.tpub.com/content/aerographer/14312/img/14312_83_1.jpg and a
> little text to go along with it... "An eddy is a circulation that
> develops when the wind flows over or adjacent to rough terrain, buildings,
> mountains or other obstructions. They generally form on the lee
> (downwind or sheltered) side of these obstructions. The size of
> the eddy is directly proportional to the size of the obstruction and speed
> of the wind. Eddies may have horizontal or vertical
> circulations that can be either cyclonic or anticyclonic."
>
> (taken from this page
> http://www.tpub.com/content/aerographer/14312/css/14312_83.htm )
>
> You've got all sorts of stuff going on in the crater - wind swirling around
> inside it like a whirlpool, twirling around at the edges,
> so on and so forth, and there are many features in the crater that will
> affect the wind in any number of different ways, and then
> the whole picture changes when the wind direction changes and you have an
> entirely NEW pattern of turbulence.
> The circulations interact with not only the sand / dust, but witheach other,
> producing even more complex circulations... see what I'm getting at? Oh and
> add to that the fact that there
> are many different particle sizes, weights, and colors / compositions. It
> all adds up to some really fantastic geometry. Do
> some research on dune formation and migration. It's basic earth science (I
> doubt you even give a *** let alone actually
> bother to read anything, but at least I tried)
>
> Given enough time, that crater would mostly fill in with wind transported
> sand. That process is beginning with those dunes,
> and all those spastic patterns and crazy images man, they're like... from
> all the wicked crazy turbulence and stuff. I'm gonna
> bet that that crater showed up after the water was gone. If there was ANY
> water there after, that baby would be pretty well gone or at least VERY
> muted.
>
> Make a long story short, quit analyzing *** beyond sorting out what's "cool
> looking" and what isn't.
> Somebody once told me "It's better to keep your mouth shut and let them
> think you're stupid than
> to open it up and let them KNOW you're stupid." and it wasn't jerry Garcia.
>
> "Jonathan" <jon@listserv.gsfc> wrote in message
> news:j7WdnZa_C_oE5avcRVn-hw@giganews.com...
> >
> > "George" <George@george.net> wrote in message
> > news:xpuZc.73062$_h.24589@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
> > > news:41358A18.66A9C1D3@arvig.net...
> > > > Jonathan wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Tendril close-up
> > > >>
> >
> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/211/1P146917874ESF35BGP2568R1M1.HTML
> > > >>
> > > >> In what I've read about dunes, one common feature that is almost
> always
> > > >> present is that the dune displays the prevailing wind direction.
> > > >> In common sand ripples, the steep slope faces into the wind
> > > >> while the broader slope faces downwind. This is also true
> > > >> for water ripples.
> > > >
> > > > Well, you sure got /them/ backward. Both.
> > >
> > > He never lets the facts stand in the way of a perfectly idiotic post.
> >
> >
> > So what's your explanation for the picture above? Do you have
> > one? Which way is the wind blowing? I say wind has nothing
> > to do with it at all.
> >
> >
> > s
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