Re: Cosmic acceleration rediscovered
From: George Dishman (george_at_briar.demon.co.uk)
Date: 12/15/04
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:13:16 -0000
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:Ztbvd.19707$I8.15662@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
> George Dishman <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:cph65m$e23$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>
>> "greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
>> news:AjOud.18570$I8.17805@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
>> > George Dishman <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:cpesm1$p8j$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
<snip>
>> >> You say this is a "local effect" which I guess might
>> >> mean that the energy is provided by starlight within
>> >> the galaxy.
>> >
>> > Nope. A poor strawman, or a bad guess.
>>
>> The latter. You hadn't given any indication of what
>> scale you meant by 'local'.
>
> Since we were discussing cosmogenic origen versus non-cosmogenic origin,
> it
> is not hard to guess properly.
In that sense anything from the boundaries
of the local cluster done could be considered
local.
>> > It simply means that it is not cosmogenic (as is normally assumed in
>> > the
>> > BB theory). It's produced in the local region (circa solar system and
>> > local region of the galaxy). Of course it will also be produced
> elsewhere.
>>
>> Ok, so the principle of the argument remains the
>> same, just replace "the core of the galaxy" by the
>> Sun or nearby stars.
>
> Huh? The argument you gave was the CMBR was emitted cosmogenically, and
> the
> light had travelled many billions of years.
No, the argument I gave was applicable to such
models but I didn't say that all tired light
models were of that type. You assumed I meant
that.
>> Why is the temperature of the
>> CMBR not higher when we look on paths that pass
>> close to the Sun
>
> Why would it be? The Sun is not doing the heating.
What is?
>> and why isn't the shape of the
>> spectrum the integral along the path of a variable
>> temperature?
>
> Because the temperature does not vary significantly.
Now who's hand waving? Please give some details,
where does the energy come from and how is it
distrubuted over this 'local' region?
>> The bottom line here is that I am prepared to
>> _consider_ such ideas, but when nobody can publish
>> an analysis that shows that making the assumption
>> of a locally generated effect can produce a match
>> to the observed data,
>
> To what observed data are you referring? There have been
> many analyses that have explained many observations.
We have been discussing the data that shows the
CMBR has a spectrum that matches a black body,
for example FIRAS.
<snip>
>> Yes, that's the equation you need to derive if a
>> Tired Light theory is to _predict_ the exponential
>> form.
>
> That is the form that is required by gravitation, as well.
>
>> So far all I see is an ad-hoc assumption that
>> this will be the case.
>
> Except that it isn't ad hoc, for two reasons. First, it is a requirement
> of
> any LeSagian method that has a mass-equivalent form. Second, it was
> explicitly predicted years before the SN1a data, by several different
> people. Including Vigier and many of the authors in the book "Pushing
> Gravity."
>
>> The MTW arguments suggest it would not be,
>
> The MTW arguments are pure hand-waving, value-free myths.
I disagree. Although the quotes seem broken to me,
I can see two ways that such arguments could be
constructed and the quotes reflect those methods
to a degree.
> Search on the name "Zel'dovich" in the thread "tired light" in this
> newsgroup.
We have already discussed them.
<snip>
> I'm always happy to address physical models and observations. Even if I
> don't have all the answers.
So explain how your CMBR source is "local". Is it
because the electrons are only heated locally, or
do they radiate everywhere and we only detect
local radiaton due to extinction or, is it for
some other reason I haven't guessed?
George
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