Re: Perihelion of Mercury with classical mechanics ?

From: Nicolaas Vroom (nicolaas.vroom_at_pandora.be)
Date: 02/24/05 

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:54:03 GMT

"Nicolaas Vroom" <nicolaas.vroom@pandora.be> schreef in bericht
news:oQMSd.18533$%v1.2303038@phobos.telenet-ops.be...

> Is there any one who can give me more informartion
> how based on observations:
> first the observed distance d1 Earth Moon,
> (Using McDonald Laser Ranging Station ?)
> secondly the actual distance
> and finally this increase in distance of 3.8 cm / year
> are calculated ?
> How many observatories are involved as part of
> these observations / calculations ?
> Is the observed distance d1 at t1 calculated as:
> (t2 - t0) * c / 2
> or is a more complex algorithm used ?
> With t0 = moment of emission of light from laser
> With t2 = moment of receiving of light from laser
> With t1 = (t0+t2) / 2
>
> Nicolaas Vroom
> http://users.pandora.be/nicvroom/
>

In order to get some idea about the Earth Moon
distance I have studied the program MOON supplied
as part of the book "Astronomy with your personal
computer" by Peter Duffett-Smith.
This program calculates the Earth-Moon distance
at a certain time and place, but with some modifications
you can also use that to calculate the maximum
distances for a certain period.

Following is the result for 1984:
Column 1 = distance in km
Column 2-4 = date Column 5-7 = time
 405608.3849943659 7 1 1984 10 1 46.99
 406430.5054588925 3 2 1984 16 25 17.56
 406714.4260363030 1 3 1984 17 25 55.86
 406350.3714502475 28 3 1984 19 57 7.43
 405395.6816477149 25 4 1984 15 20 49.34
 404468.1197446492 24 5 1984 0 30 48.53
 404243.9745394128 19 6 1984 21 49 21.88
 404852.1254151030 17 7 1984 18 47 23.51
 405781.0821973901 14 8 1984 14 35 26.28
 406359.6689450809 10 9 1984 18 47 0.53
 406322.6275803399 7 10 1984 19 16 32.25
 405690.9634341389 3 11 1984 23 25 22.60
 404813.0296634666 1 12 1984 19 46 35.07
 404338.7797164128 29 12 1984 18 10 7.13
 404628.8869445491 26 1 1985 16 46 53.47

What this tells you is that the maximum distance
highly flexible over a period of one year
but what is more important that it is very difficult
to explain that suppose that all the distance value
are measured values that the value of 29 12 1984
should not be 404338 km and 77972 cm
 but 77968 cm if this 3.8 cm increase is not taken
into account.

I expect that one important object that influences
these distances is the planet Jupiter.
That means you have to remove the influence of
Jupiter out of these observations.
In order to do that you have to know the positions
of the Earth and Jupiter.
Accurately ?
And if you do not know them accurately I expect
that makes any claim about an increase of the
Earth-Moon distance rather controversial.

(in the near future I will give more information about
a simulation with the four objects:
Sun, Earth, Moon and Jupiter)

With the same program I also calculated the
maximum distances over a much longer period:

 406703.9617799576 28 12 1902 21 25 47.68
 406707.6002670664 8 1 1921 16 35 35.06
 406672.4259527441 27 1 1930 20 2 30.48
 406696.1499911513 8 2 1948 15 8 22.16
 406687.4182780707 30 1 1957 18 51 42.11
 406710.1184460392 18 2 1966 22 16 29.22
 406669.1009584760 8 10 1980 19 32 19.80
 406714.4260363030 1 3 1984 17 25 55.86
 406672.3202105450 8 11 2007 18 18 29.29
 406656.9669761913 1 4 2011 16 28 15.11
 406694.5184556800 23 3 2020 19 44 22.79
 406705.0145049790 30 11 2043 20 37 8.66
 406671.6101895833 23 4 2047 18 37 35.73
 406707.5434456542 11 12 2061 15 46 49.81
 406675.2184529630 30 12 2070 19 7 47.45
 406698.4571414733 10 1 2089 14 13 52.00
 406684.7218982943 2 1 2098 18 1 32.62
 406712.3839595916 22 1 2107 21 21 57.43
 406717.0200725148 2 2 2125 16 31 6.44
 406667.1142930359 11 10 2148 17 21 43.40
 406683.4550249315 4 3 2152 15 17 20.52
 406698.3902277122 24 2 2161 18 48 20.10
 406696.3255528670 15 3 2170 22 23 7.87
 406701.2674920212 2 11 2184 19 39 35.86
 406699.5379324314 26 3 2188 17 30 37.53
 406704.4021879547 15 11 2202 14 48 44.01

Accordingly to my simulation the distance R
increases with 100 cm / year = 1 m / year.
That means with 1 km per 1000 years.

Does the above information, again assuming
that they are actual measured/observed values
invalidates such a claim ?

Nicolaas Vroom
http://users.pandora.be/nicvroom/

Relevant Pages

  • Re: .....Simple Math Derivation Needed.....
    ... > So long as the distance between Earth and Jupiter is ... > greater error in the actual distance than the slight change ... > in distance caused by the transverse motion of the Earth ... Roemer was simply using a clock nearest Jupiter and then ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: .....Simple Math Derivation Needed.....
    ... > So long as the distance between Earth and Jupiter is ... > greater error in the actual distance than the slight change ... > in distance caused by the transverse motion of the Earth ... Roemer was simply using a clock nearest Jupiter and then ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: .....Simple Math Derivation Needed.....
    ... > So long as the distance between Earth and Jupiter is ... > greater error in the actual distance than the slight change ... > in distance caused by the transverse motion of the Earth ... Roemer was simply using a clock nearest Jupiter and then ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: question about e=mc^2
    ... | appeared and dissapeared behind Jupiter. ... As the distance between Earth and Jupiter decreases, ... where = dx/dt in the line of sight between the satellite and the ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Light Speed Test versus Special Relativity
    ... If you are parked beside the road and a train ... > When the Earth retreats from Jupiter the Doppler effect reduces the ... You already know that the distance is increasing, ... >> eclipse events would remain in synchronism with the observations of ...
    (sci.physics)
Quantcast