Re: Superluminal Quasar Jets : The Beaming "Explanation" Appears Inadequate
jgreen_at_seol.net.au
Date: 02/27/05
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Date: 27 Feb 2005 15:04:43 -0800
George Dishman wrote:
> <jgreen@seol.net.au> wrote in message
> news:1109461004.939277.271580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> >>
> >> Maxwell provides the conundrum I describe, since light travels at
c for
> >> all
> >> observers, yet light leaves "forward" from an object travelling at
c. He
> >> seems to be running towards Fizeau next...
> >
> > Then wasn't Maxwell saying c'=c+v
>
> David said "light travels at c for all observers"
> hence c'=c.
If c'=c for ALL observers, does not l'=l for those SAME observers?
>
> http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/more/light/light_page9.html
>
> > , and thus in direct conflict with AE?
>
> See section 6 of Einstein's original paper:
>
> http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/more/light/light_page9.html
>
> > How is the increasing length per time (velocity) of these jets
measured?
>
> Length isn't too meaningful as the jets are a
> continuous flow so there is no clear end to the
> jet. Measuring the speed depends on non-uniformity
> in the flow by following the progress of 'knots'
> of matter. For example:
The view is of a train coming out of a tunnel; select a carriage (=
knot)
and measure to engine. Length is carriage -> engine velocity is
carriage
-> tunnel mouth / time
>
> http://www.stsci.edu/ftp/science/m87/m87.html
>
> and in particular this set of frames:
>
> http://www.stsci.edu/ftp/science/m87/bw3.gif
>
> Or look at the attached radio map here:
>
> http://www.phy.duke.edu/~kolena/superluminalmotion.html
>
> You might also practice your maths by trying
> to answer the questions on that page ;-)
>
> > SR believers might claim that the only legitimate measurement would
be
> > that of a traveller on the jet!
>
> SR provides a set of rules for converting
> measurements in one frame into another frame.
> Both measurements are "legitimate" in their
> respective frames.
If we applied SR to the observed velocity length which we are seeing,
then the jet would vanish! (Travelling at c it reduces to nil)
We can see the speed of the jet by way of the increasing angle between
the source and the "top", if we have a fair idea of the distance from
here.
The passenger on the jet has NO angle to observe, and so he continues
to be mistaken in his belief that he is closer to the top than he
measures. :-)
>
> > Otherwise, SR is decapitated right
> > here, with the obvious and trivial observation that velocity has
NOT
> > shrunken the moving body!
>
> It has. Someone riding on the jet would measure
> a greater distance between the same knots than
> an observer at rest wrt the source and viewing
> the jet perpendicular to its motion.
similar to above
Cheers
Jim G
c'=c+v
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