Re: Light Speed Test versus Special Relativity

From: Bill Hobba (bhobba_at_rubbish.net.au)
Date: 03/23/05 

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:49:42 GMT

"Stan Byers" <sbyers11@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:74KdnV810aNsKNzfRVn-1A@comcast.com...
> Hello Owen and Group,
>
> Thanks for the message. Your question highlights the important part that
SR
> does not notice.
> It is impossible to have the same relative speed with light when you are
> moving in the same direction,... as you have when you are at rest in
> relation to the source. If you are parked beside the road and a train is
> passing parallel going west at 100 miles per hour(mph),...and then you
start
> driving west at twenty mph, SR says that the train will still be passing
you
> at 100 mph.

That is not what SR says at all.

> Now you and I both know that you could not teach such a concept to grade
> school children.

Since that is not what SR teaches the issue is irrelevant.

>
> Think of the Io eclipse events as an audible clock ticking. When the Earth
> has no relative speed in relation to Jupiter there is an "at rest rate".
> When the Earth retreats from Jupiter the Doppler effect reduces the rate.
SR
> says the relative speed of sound remains the same after you start
> retreating.

It does not say that.

> Now if the speed of sound stayed the same,... the moving Earth
> would hear the "at rest rate" while it was retreating. That is exactly why
> SR is impossible. It SR were true there would be no 1003 sec delay as
> observed by Roemer. As long as the 1003 sec delay exists since 1676
> AD,...SR is impossible.
>
> If two things have different speeds in the same direction relative to
> Jupiter it is impossible for the relative speed to be equal to the fastest
> speed. This same statement it true for rotation on a common axis.

You are very confused. For a correct treatment of SR see the following -
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0110076,
and ancient, but I still think excellent post by Tom Roberts
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&selm=54jfst%24glp%40ssbunews.ih.lucent.com
and chapter 10 of
http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~phys16/Textbook/
under the heading of Relativity without c.

Bill

>
> "OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:3abv7mF6ae48oU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Stan Byers" <sbyers11@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:DYKdnVNi2Jg7zqHfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> Gentlemen of physical science.
> >>
> >> This notice is posted with a request for reviews. All comments,
> > corrections
> >> and alternate views are welcome. Reviews may be posted on this group
> > or
> >> emailed. Reviews will not be posted on the web site or news groups
> > without
> >> the reviewing author's prior permission. The links for the graphs are
> >> listed below and the graphs are currently available on the website.
> >>
> >> Io's period change graphs via Excel spread***.
> >>
> >> Earth retreating from Jupiter
> >> http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/IoAppro.gif
> >>
> >> Earth approaching Jupiter
> >> http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/IoEcipChange4.gif
> >>
> >> This entire article is available on the website. Newsgroup readers may
> >> review the
> >> complete article at the link
> >>
> >> http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/litespd_vs_sr.htm
> >>
> >> Shortly after the reviews have been received this content will be
> >> incorporated with the other pages on the site.
> >> Citations or links to arguments correcting or refuting this
> >> interpretation of Roemer's data will be appreciated.
> >> A link or quote of rational arguments will be added to the web page.
> >
> > Your site includes the following key paragraph
> > QUOTE
> > If the speed of the train of light and events from Jupiter was not
> > reduced in relation to the retreating Earth, succeeding observations of
> > eclipse events would remain in synchronism with the observations of the
> > near point. How could a station 2.6549 million miles further from
> > Jupiter observe an eclipse event at the same time that it is observed at
> > the near point
> > END QUOTE
> >
> > That is a pretty big IF. . .
> > Please explain precisely WHY successive observations would remain in
> > synch if speed of light was not reduced.
> > They would move out of synch simply because of the increased distance.
>
> Yes, that is exactly right. and the Earth's distance per unit time is
> producing the distance.
> Therefore the relative speed has changed. Just like the train,... C-v.
>
> SR says the speed of light stays the same after you start retreating.
> If the speed stays the same the light's frequency stays the same.
> If the frequency stays the same the period between wave crests stay the
> same.
> If the period for the light wave stays the same the period for the events
> carried by the light stay the same.
> If the period of events (eclipse) stay the same, there will be no 1003
> second delay.
>
> >
> > It is, of course, no coincidence that the change in eclipse period is
> > proportional to the relative speed of the Earth and Jupiter, since the
> > relative speed times 152,916seconds gives the increase in distance.
> >
> >
>
> Cheers, Stan Byers
>
> http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/litespd_vs_sr.htm
>
>
>