Re: Pioneer Anomoly


"John C. Polasek" <jpolasek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:c2mmb118be041dv2cno85m8sv1kon05bqe@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:55:24 +0100, "George Dishman"
> <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John C. Polasek" <jpolasek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:6etjb1hstaeepeeuth5v2hihnm7ehj0ucm@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> OK, George, you are resisting my interpretation of the diagram.
>>
>>Not your interpretation, I am just clarifying
>>the labels as a check and for others. If I have
>>correctly understood your explanation, the words
>>I offered should be an accurate description of
>>your interpretation.
>>
>>> So let's quit on that.
>>
>>OK. They are only a suggestion, take them as
>>you would constructive criticism from a proof
>>reader ;-)
>>
>>> Take a look at my energy equation (Eq. 9 #2).
>>> Dual Space has the following total energy equation :
>>> .5mc^2 = .5m*c'^2 + .5m*V^2
>>
>>>From your paper I think you meant
>>
>> E = .5m*c'^2 + .5m*V^2 [1]
>>
>>where E is the total energy. I think c' here
>>is what you call c_x in the paper and c_0 in
>>the paper is just c here. I'll use c as the
>>normal meaning and c' as the projection of
>>the "craft's time arrow" onto the horizontal
>>axis (it is confusing to use c_x because it
>>is not the spatial x component).
>>
>>> It is the basis of the diagramFig. 1.
>>>
>>> Read the paragraph with Eq.8 and Eq. 9 and see if it makes sense. Eq.9
>>> is directly the diagram. The diagram is loaded with answers.
>>
>>Applying Pythagoras to the diagram:
>>
>> c^2 = c'^2 + V^2
>>
>>hence
>>
>> c'^2 = c^2 - V^2 [2]
>>
>>Your equation for energy is [1] above:
>>
>> E = 0.5 * m * c'^2 + 0.5 * m * V^2
>>
>>or
>>
>> E = m/2 * (c'^2 + V^2)
>>
>>Substituting [2] for c'^2 we get:
>>
>> E = m * c^2 / 2 [3]
>>
>>This means the total energy is constant which
>>is what you say in eqn 9 in your paper. Note
>>that your use of "kinetic energy" is misleading
>>since it is normally the excess due to speed,
>>not the total.
>
> No I was referring to the kinetic energy half of creation. More on
> that below.
>
>> I can see why you use it (speed
>>in the time direction) but others will find it
>>most confusing.
>
> In DS matter is created in two steps.There is .5mc2 expended getting
> the electron out of its cell. See Eq. 8c #1paper. That's the
> restocking charge. Step 2 is accelerating it to c, and I call this the
> kinetic energy part of creation-I should have been clearer..
>
> You have to accord the time axis as a real dimension with us traveling
> at c.
> When we accelerate some mass m to velocity V as in the diagram, .5mV2
> is the simple Kinetic. V chases the .5mc2 on an arc up to the diagonal
> time arrow.
>>
>>What equation [3] means is that if we fire a
>>proton at a calorimeter at 0.1c or at 0.9c, it
>>carries the same total energy so would increase
>>the temperature by the same amount. Your theory
>>means there is no such thing as kinetic energy
>>in the conventional sense. Obviously that isn't
>>borne out in experiments, the faster an object
>>moves, the more energy it delivers.
>>
>>The relativistic formula approximates the usual
>>1/2 m V^2 for small V and remains accurate at
>>energies of 300 GeV/c and above.
> You might think you're getting 300 GeV into your target but looking at
> my Fig. 1b #2 you know that the higher the force the more ineffectual
> it is.

The 300GeV is what is measured, the force
would be calculated.

My point was that since your equations mean
the total energy is independent of speed,
and the energy when the particle is brought
to rest must be the same for both particles
(0.1c and 0.9c in my toy example), then
there would _equal_ amounts of energy given
to the target for both speeds. Clearly
that is wrong.

George


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pioneer Anomoly
    ... > OK, George, you are resisting my interpretation of the diagram. ... > Dual Space has the following total energy equation: ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Re: Pioneer Anomoly
    ... >> OK, George, you are resisting my interpretation of the diagram. ... >> Dual Space has the following total energy equation: ... >where E is the total energy. ... No I was referring to the kinetic energy half of creation. ...
    (sci.astro)
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