Re: Galaxy cluster at z=1.4 challenges BBT

Max Keon wrote: 
Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote:

Max Keon wrote:

Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote:

Max Keon wrote:

Because the frequency generated at the tower base is less than
that generated at the tower top, you conclude that the frequency has
been *red* shifted on the way to the tower top and *blue* shifted
on the way down? It should be blatantly obvious that the frequency
generated at the base is going to be slower when it passes by tower
top and is compared with the frequency generated in a similar
frequency generator located there, and that the frequency generated
at the tower top will be faster when compared with the frequency
generated in a similar frequency generator at the tower base, as
that wavetrain passes by the base. One hardly needs to be a genius
to see that.



*sigh* For about the third time: these are simply two different
interpretations of one and the same effect. How often do I need to
repeat that?

The fact remains that radiation which is emitted deep down a gravity
well is measured to have a smaller frequency than one emitted further
up. And that's all that's needed for the Sachs-Wolfe effect we
initially discussed (remember?).



Yes I do remember that "discussion". But the Sachs-Wolfe effect is
nothing like what you've described here.


Yes, it is. Get an education.


From what I gather; At the 
time when the universe became transparent the photons and baryons
had decoupled at last scattering and were then free to travel the
universe. However, just prior to last scattering, the baryons were
clustered in gravitational potential wells, so the climb from these
wells would necessarily expend some energy from the photons and they
would become redshifted.



That is *one* interpretation; one can equally well interpret this as
being due to gravitational time dilation.


Note that the *already existing* photons are redshifted. 


Err, these are photons which at one time created, and when they were
created, there was a deeper gravitational potential well than there is
now. That is all that is needed.



That is supposed to be a cause of primary anisotropy
in the CMBR. The secondary anisotropy attributed to the Sachs-Wolfe
effect is again to do with the red or blue shifting of *already
existing* photons which run the gauntlet of a deepening or decaying
gravity well. You apparently dispute all of this?



I only keep pointing out that "gravitational redshift" and
"gravitational time dilation" are here simply two different ways to
view one and the same effect. Unfortunately, you still don't get it.


*Already existing* photons gain energy on the way into a gravitational potential well and they are thus blueshifted. When the same *already existing* photons leave the potential well they lose energy in the climb out and are thus redshifted. The redshift exactly counters the blueshift and they emerge exactly as they were prior to the encounter with the potential well.

I already addressed that. You simply don't get it. This is a complete waste of time.



[snip]

Bye,
Bjoern
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Galaxy cluster at z=1.4 challenges BBT
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  • Re: Galaxy cluster at z=1.4 challenges BBT
    ... that generated at the tower top, you conclude that the frequency has been *red* shifted on the way to the tower top and *blue* shifted on the way down? ... The fact remains that radiation which is emitted deep down a gravity ... time when the universe became transparent the photons and baryons ... being due to gravitational time dilation. ...
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  • Re: Galaxy cluster at z=1.4 challenges BBT
    ... >> that generated at the tower top, you conclude that the frequency has ... >> generated in a similar frequency generator at the tower base, ... > The fact remains that radiation which is emitted deep down a gravity ... time when the universe became transparent the photons and baryons ...
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