Re: Pioneer Anomoly

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:21:55 +0100, "George Dishman"
<george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>"Jonathan Silverlight" <jsilverlight@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
>in message news:V8R1MTeEPdNDFwvl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> In message <dh4iqa$n5v$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, George Dishman
>> <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
>>>
>>>"John C. Polasek" <jpolasek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>news:99ebj19545dmgjqh5pdh00euvj6p7s58m7@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>Sadly that is not what is measured. The returned
>>>frequency is higher than expected suggesting the
>>>carft is being slowed, hence the acceleration is
>>>directed towards the Sun as stated in the abstract.
>>>
>>>> There is some fuzz on this in the literature to wit:
>>>> You recall that from The Apparent Anomalous etc. by Turyshev et al 9
>>>> Mar 1999 where in the footnote on page 3 they say Dnu=nu - nu0 where
>>>> nu is the measured (rec'd?) frequency and nu0 the reference and cite
>>>> the value -6x10^-9Hz one way. In my case nu = low and nu0 would be
>>>> high so I get a negative result to agree with theirs. Then they put in
>>>> the questionable remark m/l saying would be negative for a station
>>>> approaching the station (blue shift) JUST THE OPPOSITE OF THE USUAL
>>>> CONVENTION.
>>>> I get the idea they had in their mind some extra gravity from the Sun
>>>> as the cause, and adopted this backward convention.
>>>
>>>No JPL always use that convention. I believe it may
>>>be because positive values apply when the craft is
>>>moving away from Earth, the usual condition, but the
>>>real reason may be lost in the mists of time. Anyway
>>>it is a convention that has been in use for decades
>>>and all the JPL software expects it.
>>>
>>>Anyway, a number of people queried that which is why
>>>they added the explanatory confirmation.
>>>
>>
>> At the risk of inviting the devil, Aladar Stolmar was one of the people
>> who queried it.
>
>I think it was his nagging that prompted them to
>add the clarifying note.
>
>> He also believed that the Pioneer effect genuinely was a red shift, ...
>
>Yes, despite the fact that Turyshev wrote to him
>specifically saying it was a blue shift. I saw
>the email.
>
>> and he was also confused about the difference between real years and light
>> years :-)
>
>No, he knew the difference but choose to pretend
>the numbers were something they could not possibly
>be to avoid having to admit he was wrong.
>
>George
>
Let's see if we can get this straight. The anomaly is strictly one of
clock performance. This is of course a relief or we would be studying
the planets to see why they have not strayed. There is not one iota of
anomalous acceleration of the craft, so it just muddies the waters to
argue red or blue shift nomenclature.

I think we can agree that the arithmetic quoted in Turyshev produces a
negative frequency difference implying that the reference clock has
sped up to give the same negative frequency difference as I assert in
the paper. That negative difference increases proportional to trip
time. Can we agree on that? The team does make some arithmetic errors
later as far as I can see, stemming from the use of hz instead of
carefully specifying cps as follows against which I abjured near Eq.
6.

The clock rate increasing in time is clock rate acceleration for which
they hazard the value -6.9hz/sec^2 which must have been miscalculated
from the experimental value of 1.55 cps in 8 years. Using cps as I do,
the latter works out to 3.868e-8 cps/s and as shown in Eq. 6
generates Ap correctly.

The 6.9e-9 value they cite is wrong as I show in Eq. 7 since it
generates an Ap of 2.2e-11mss that is low by 4pi^2. This is an
indication we should not take the red or blue designations too
seriously, (tho if the signal coming back is lower, yes it's
redshift). But it doesn't matter.

The only change I would make to my paper would be to change from
blueshift to "blueshift" since it's only their call that makes it
blue, and I should have called attention to it.

John Polasek
http://www.dualspace.net
.

Relevant Pages

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