Re: The instant solution to global warming, zero energy (no yeah right, hydrogen combustion)

On Feb 2, 2:18 pm, "dlzc" <d...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear gb6...:

On Feb 2, 12:10 pm, gb6...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Electrolysis is electric. 60% applies.

Physics and chemistry is astronomy. A Universal
and Chemics is Bush.

Your misunderstanding of the English language is not the entire issue.

Ignoring my sideposts, the bus in Chicago has a
gas tank five times of gas tanks of conventional
busses, and is filled with hydrogen.

A one time cost. Not something you have to keep paying for, like fuel
or filters.

That hydrogen mixes with oxygen, and produces
electricity which runs the bus. That hydrogen tank
itself was produced using electricity, and if one
calculates the cost, the design is 60 percent
energy efficient. That hydrogen which produces
electricity, needed 40 percent more electricity
in producing that hydrogen.

Not over the life of the bus. The lifecycle cost approaches the cost
of making the hydrogen, asymptotically. If it is maintained well, the
cost of making the tank is inconsequential.

But what I am saying, is that when we burn
hydrogen, it has the same power as gasoline,

No.

which produces more power than electric engines.

Not pound-for-pound of fuel. A fuel cell makes 2-3 times as much
electricity, due enitrely to conversion efficiencies.

We are saying that gasoline has not much more power.
I have read, that hydrogen can be literally used in existing
cars. This already a deep physics/chemistry stuff to
calculate.

Then we have more than 40 percent extra energy,
which can be used to produce hydrogen using
conventional means that the factory used to supply
these busses in Chicago with hydrogen.

Sorry, but that clearly doesn't work.

If hydrogen burns as gasoline, it is more powerful,
the question is if we can use that power to
conventionally produce hydrogen. A question,
which you are convinced that this stuff is not
normal, so to speak, as violation of physics
or chemistry, or crackpotting scientry is the
case, with other labels. Either way. You speak
here, so you may be interested in me proving
to you, that hydrogen burns and as that can
be used to create energy.

Of course we need to fit this technology inside a
car, and it becomes a zero energy car. Take your
time, I respect your true expertise.

You don't routinely respect anyone or anything in this newsgroup. I
doubt that will change.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in
ordinary cars. This is trivial, but you have to
use your brain.

You have to replace your exhaust system. You
have to adjust your timing. You have to monitor
your lubricants. It is not "trivial", and yes, please
do use your brain.

I am from East Europe, people use illegally installed
propain gas tanks to run their cars as gasoline is
expensive. Nothing needs adjustment. I am speaking
of authentic cars.

Same here. The only exhaust product of combusting hydrogen is high
temperature steam. This ends up contaminating the oil, and corroding
the exhaust system. And this is well documented.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You haven't yet.

Russians and Americans are not alike.

I have spent time in Kogalym. Russians that I have met are
intelligent people.

...

There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60
percent energy efficiency is true.

No.

Explained above.

"Imagined" above. Not based on reality, only what you will allow
yourself to believe.

...

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on
my trivial understanding that hydrogen using electricity
can be extracted from water,

60% loss of energy here.

Again, this should be explained already.

Not explained, and not based on facts that are easily available.

I have asked the French government to assign researchers to
this possible source of energy and to investigate all
environmental and possibilities. The French government
is looking at solutions to global warming. I sent a letter
to the French Ambassador. I don't know if it works.

and water can be extracted from the air using electricity,

Some places easier than others. Some times of year
easier than others. All require *significant* energy inputs
to do so. On the order of what you expect to get out of it,
plus a bit more for entropy.

Right. My father is a biotechnologist, I know from him that
water is extracted very efficiently in the driest Sahara.

Energy consumption to get 1 liter per minute of water via refrigerated
condensation is: how many kilowatt-hours?

Ordinary house-based air conditioner does 1 liter per minute waste.
That sucks, because there is no information on that, so you
need to test it yourself. I did it. a) find a large air conditioner.
b) find a place where it disposes of water. c) measure the
amount of that water. d) make sure the air conditioning system
does not need water as part of its functioning.

...

The possibility is there for an engine that extracts
hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses
that hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

The infernal combustion engine is about 30% efficient
on a good day.
You lose energy condensing water.
You lose energy electrolysing water (yes more than you get out of it
in hydrogen, right here).
You lose energy burning it in an infernal combustion engine.
You lose energy in converting shaft work back to electricity.

Well, one may just have to try and see. A car mechanic
in East Europe could do it.

Please do. Rub it in my face when you accomplish this. Because there
are 100 other people that have tried exactly what you propose, and
their projects are also stalled, because they didn't do their research
first.

I don't do research. A lifetime accomplishment based on my
childhood collections of drinking water coming out of the air
conditioning systems, and filling up bottles after bottles, and
saying how fast this water keeps coming.

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not
consider real inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should
we see it, if we don't want to believe it.

Been tried. Even carefully, the second law of
thermodynamics prevents "over unity" devices from working.

Your "good intenions" are just noise, and are off topic in sci.astro.

Thanks, good talk.

Just seems to be an opportunity for you to show what you don't know.

You do realize that this is all recorded for many, many years, right?
And you will look back on what you have written and blush...

Once cannibals came about. These people wanted meat,
and the only source of meat were humans at the time.

A collection of bones, dead people hanging upside
down... these Cannibals sharpened their vampire teeth.

Their leader with a quiet deeeep voice taught
cannibals about a level that distingushes them from
the humans!

George

.

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