Re: Mathematics Is Not a Science

From: John Edser (edser_at_tpg.com.au)
Date: 02/25/05 

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:43:50 -0500 (EST)

Guy Hoelzer <hoelzer@unr.edu>
> > JE:-
> > It is possible to test something to
> > to verification or refutation without
> > having to even count. A prohibited
> > empirical observation that requires the
> > senses does require a rational proposition
> > but it may not require counting to
> > test it. e.g. the theory that I take a
> > size 10 shoe is not verified if it does
> > not fit but it stands refuted when a size
> > 11 fits.

> GH:-

> This cannot possibly be a theory. It is a hypothesis, or a
prediction,
> which might or might not be derived from a theory.

JE:-
Hi Guy,
You cannot have a prediction without
a theory/hypothesis because a
prediction has to be derived from
something.

A hypothesis is not different in kind
to a theory. The difference is a hypothesis
only remains a part of a theory that can be
verified/ non verified or refuted in its own
right without compromising the theory it is
a part of. An example is the hypothesis that
evolution occurs in large jumps or via gradual
changes. Either way evolution remains non
refuted.

> GH:-
> As I argued in the
> snipped portion of my previous post, math plays a very important role
in
> the
> theory side of science. So your reply failed to respond in any
meaningful
> way to my argument.

JE:-
Absolutely not. Theory/hypothesis building
and testing is commonplace within ordinary
life without any mathematics being required.
Science has formalised this process and
usefully employed mathematics within it.

> > JE:-
> > Mathematics was not required to
> > make these tests

> GH:-
> These tests do not constitute science if they occurred in a
theoretical
> vacuum.

JE:-
No theory vacuum existed. The theory
supposed was quite simple: I am a
living form. The hypothesis was:
I have feet that can wear shoes.

> GH:-
> You just hid the important role of math in your assertion that
> your prediction was based on a theory.

JE:-
Please explain where any mathematics was
required in my simple example and where
I could have possibly hidden it.

> > JE:-
> >(Note: most confuse
> > non verification with refutation.)

> GH
> Not me.

JE:-
I am surprised because you have
rejected Popper and therefore
any need to provide a refutation
for a theory. However, please define
the difference between a non verification
and a refutation for the benefit of
sbe readers.

Regards,

John Edser
Independent Researcher

PO Box 266
Church Pt
NSW 2105
Australia

edser@tpg.com.au

Relevant Pages

  • Towards A Self Consistent Epistemology
    ... empirical refutation which distinguishes empirical or scientific theories. ... distinguish between these propositions, if and only if, A is defined as a ... reversal of cause and effect relative to the parent theory under test. ... The difference between a non verification and a refutation remains critical. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Misrepresentation of Popper
    ... Popper defines the quantitative verisimilitude which a statement ... The above was not a test to refutation, just a test to non verification. ... > falsification of a high-level scientific theory is never brought about ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Sex for diversity or diversity repression?
    ... Non verification. ... When these non refutable beliefs are adopted by the sciences they have to be ... enforced BECAUSE they cannot be tested to refutation. ... or allow popular irrefutable theories to replace older refutable ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Publishing scientific information
    ... The whole of science proceeds ... Only refutation is ethical because it ... The Neo Darwinian establishment is ... refutable mathematics. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: "Algorithms" in Molecular Biology?
    ... I guess my point is, you can't define the term algorithm, because the ... verification of a non verification is definitive. ... test to refutation as to what a chair is supposed to be, ... Without gene centricity Neo Darwinism fails. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)