Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess


Guy Hoelzer wrote:
> Walter ReMine wrote:
>> Here is the fundamental principle: Whenever a
>> scenario claims an allele increases in number
>> of copies (by reproductive means), then
>> reproductive excess is required. Absolutely.
>> Positively. No exceptions. Felsenstein is wrong.
>
> This statement is absolutely and positively false,

But he doesn't show my statement is "absolutely and positively false."
Instead, he devolves into a discussion of the meaning of "reproductive
excess".

> .... The falsehood of ReMine's position is clearly
> revealed by a simple case ... Consider cellular reproduction,
> which is the same as organismal reproduction for
> unicellular organisms. This is achieved through cell
> division which results in two cells where there was
> previously only one, and an increase in frequency for
> the alleles carried by the cell.

He still has shown any falsehood. But next he immediately turns into a
discussion of "reproductive excess."

> If this is an example of reproductive excess, then I
> would like to know how a cell can reproduce without
> being "excessive." If this is an example of reproductive
> excess to ReMine, then ALL reproduction is excessive
> in his view.

I did not use the word "excessive", rather I used the accepted term
"reproductive excess".

His confusion centers on the question of whether a given cellular
organism lives forever. If you answer yes (which is implausible), then
all the reproduction qualifies as reproductive excess, since the
organism does not die, and therefore does not need to be replaced.

However, if you answer no, (in other words, if the organism dies), then
not all the reproduction is reproductive excess.

-- Walter ReMine
Haldane's Dilemma
http://www1.minn.net/~science/Haldane.htm


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess
    ... Joe Felsenstein wrote ... > excess is needed in the case of beneficial substitutions, ... Felsenstein's term "PRE-EXISTING reproductive excess" was not in his ... may not increase the *actual* reproduction rate, ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess
    ... We get more of the same confusion factors from ReMine: ... >> excess is needed in the case of beneficial substitutions, ... The term "reproductive excess" itself wasn't in there, ... >reproduction rate, but that does not reduce the reproductive ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess
    ... Joe Felsenstein wrote ... then reproductive excess is REQUIRED. ... > If there are too many beneficial substitutions, for example, ... ACTUAL reproduction rate. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess
    ... >>> reproductive excess is required. ... >>> given cellular organism lives forever. ... then all the reproduction ... Death removes allele copies, ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Felsenstein and reproductive excess
    ... >>> reproductive excess is required. ... so I find it odd that Remine was unable to ... Consider cellular reproduction, ... >> the alleles carried by the cell. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)