Re: Lizard engines and rat engines

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:39:45 -0400 (EDT), "g" <gillawton@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>
>"r norman" <rsn_@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:damprs$1f2n$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:21:36 -0400 (EDT), "g" <gillawton@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> There is an extensive discussion of this same topic over in
>> talk.origins, including a rather long post by me about the
>> comparative and environmental physiology of temperature regulation.
>> There are a number of advantages and disadvantages to homeothermy
>> (maintaining a constant body temperature). As is always the case in
>> biology, there are animals that "choose" one strategy and animals that
>> choose another. Furthermore, there are many physiological tricks
>> animals can use to maintain regulate their body temperature. Large
>> animals tend to have a problem with overheating, the larger the animal
>> the worse the problem. Large "chunky" animals have a much worse
>> problem than animals with long, thin elongated body regions,
>> especially if those regions are not covered in thick, heavy skin and
>> fur or feathers. Having large ears is just one trick to cool off.
>> Few organisms use that technique, elephants and rabbits being the two
>> most common examples. Other organisms have different tricks.
>>
>> Note: True, rabbits are not particularly large. Nevertheless, they
>> found that trick to be useful. Evolutionary tricks, like all weird
>> adaptations, are sporadic in distribution demonstrating independent
>> evolutionary origin.
>>
>I think we are starting to get on the same page here.
>
>If we are careless about how we say things then we plant subliminal
>suggestions as to assumptions that are not so. And, if we are not
>careful, those suggestions -- even though, when we are pinned down,
>skew our thinking.
>
>Too much language that has been used in statements made about
>evolutionary biology has been suggested of many misleading notions.
>And thank you for putting quotes around the word "choose" in the
>sentence stating that various animals "choose" various ways of,
>as it were, "skinning a cat."
>
>Choose is a good word. But there must be many words that would
>say the same thing and not even hint that animals choose to do
>any evolutionary thing.
>
>To my way of thinking, if life did NOT have the capability of making
>reproductive errors, there would either be one species only, or zero.
>
>How different is the conception of error, when our capacity to
>indulge in it lies at the very root of all evolution.
>

We agree on too few things. Biologists do use language loosely.
There is a great deal of "antrhopomorphic shorthand", talking about
animals "choosing" this are "seeking" that when we really mean that
evolution specifically selects animals that do this or that. The
audience at the sci.bio groups should be sophisticated enough to
understand what is meant.

You are also quite right on the importance of error. Without
mutation, there is no evolution. In my intro classes I teach that
mutation is the least important mechanism of evolutionary change.
Mutation is so infrequent that it produces virtually no noticeable
change in allele frequencies. I also teach that mutation is the most
important mechanism in evolutionary change. The change from zero
alleles in a gene pool of many thousands to one allele in many
thousands is a change in the third or fourth decimal place. But it is
an enormous percentage change. Without variation there is no
evolution. That is, without variation, everything is the same. There
is one species, just as you say. Or, more likely, without variation
biology couldn't happen in the first place; zero species, just like
you say.






.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Speculative Design Hypothesis (with predictions)
    ... So where is the testable falsifiable hypothesis for how evolution ... so why hasn't our species been extinguished by random ... they depends on the environment plus all the other erstwhile mutation. ... You speak of "miscopying" as the source of variation. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: An introduction
    ... selection and an oversimplified concept of mutation via genetic ... variation, but it speaks little to the source of variation. ... and itself is a stronger force of evolution than mutation. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The Reasonable Minority
    ... 38 phyla of different groups of animals, but the total number of phyla ... evolution implies that things get more and more complex and get more ... BS again Multi-cellular animals did not evolve ... The fossil collection in our museum begins about 750 million years ...
    (talk.origins)
  • _Plausibility of Life_ -- facilitated variation in evolution
    ... Darwin's revolutionary theory of evolution has explained very well how ... The authors emphasize early on that mutation only alters what already ... for the evolved organism. ... is done centers on the notion of `facilitated variation', ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Non-Atheist evolutionists?
    ... We agree that random mutation happens. ... What we agree is "belief" is that species evolved by small random ... within your definition of evolution. ... Of variation in a population. ...
    (talk.origins)