Re: Hamilton's rule in small population



"JoeSixPack" olegp@xxxxxxxxx wrote:-

> "John Edser" <edser@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:djn36m$1kqe$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> > Bark beetles, honeybees, wolves hunting in packs, all these organisms
> >> have
> >> > evolved traits that do nothing to benefit the individual, but when
> they
> >> > occur to several members in a group, they suddenly confer benefits to
> >> all in
> >> > that group. It's really quite simple.
> >
> >> This thread appears to be about Hamilton's rule.
> >> If you want to discuss the viabiliy of group selection theories, you
> may
> >> be better off starting another thread with a different subject line.

> > JE:-
> > Hamilton's Rule is group selective. To reduce it to organism selective
> you
> > must divide rb/p where p is the number of recipients. Whenever you do so
> > the
> > rule fails.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Edser
> > Independent Researcher
> >
> > edser@xxxxxxxxxx

> The rule fails? Evolution does not fail to use it effectively for group
> selection. I suppose you are right with regard to the individual, but
> since
> the individual is part of the group, group dynamics still function to the
> benefit of the individual.

JE:-
Yes, but only as empirically based UNCONDITIONAL mutualism and not as just
"conditional mutualism" or "conditional altruism" allowed by Hamilton's
hopeless tautology incorrectly applied to nature as a valid theory of
science by arrogant mathematicians who simply don't-know-any-better OR by
classical group selection.

Regards,

John Edser
Independent Researcher

edser@xxxxxxxxx



>
> I agree that individuals can benefit within a group from selfish behavior
> in
> the short term, but since that weakens the group, that group will be
> selected against. That's why other traits sometimes exist that act to
> "police" the group, and expel selfish individuals.
>




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hamiltons rule in small population
    ... >> rule fails. ... Group selection is the underlying cause of altruism and related ... But it's not even considered by neoDarwinists. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Hamiltons rule in small population
    ... >>> rule fails. ... > But nobody doubts the existence of altruism. ... > against the existence of group selection. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Hamiltons rule in small population
    ... >>> If you want to discuss the viabiliy of group selection theories, ... >> rule fails. ... But nobody doubts the existence of altruism. ... > "police" the group, and expel selfish individuals. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)