Re: Fw: Edward O. Wilson's "bombshell" on the reality of group


"John Edser" <edser@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e75dm7$6sm$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Modern day medieval minded martyrs may, however,
best be regarded as a symptom of a disease of (combined
past) AEVASIVE adaptations.

JE:-
Not necessarily.

Perhaps I was blind to the positively naturally selective effect - IF IT
EXIST -
that siblings of suiciding-bombing sorts become extra attractive to those
potential mates that are genetically inclined to be more than average
neurotically
(AEVASIVEly) motivated as follows:

To be as fervent about fornication and forming fecund families as they are
forcefully religiously believing/rationalizing and thereby efficiently
self-anaesthetizing characteristics (boosting the chance of realizing a
behavior of blowing up people perceived - also partly because of neural
plasticities that allow energetic projections of primal pain to become both
hate and hope - to both be "obstacles" and "passports to afterlife-glory"
(respectively).

The cost of a mutualised group increases per mutualised
individual as the mutualised gains per individual exponentially increase.
Like the slime mould society, ALL these costs HAVE to be paid.
Pleiotrophic
and epistatic gene effects CAN evolve to enforce payment.

I see how (from your point of view) you see suicidal or fitness lowering
acts of "altruism" as a payment of a "mutualising" [actually just the effect
of
mutations (generically meant) that made it "thus far" - i.e. to be expressed
"additively" in this way; OR further IF expressed in ways that are
favorable to positive Edserian fitness outcomes (outcomes that are, BTW,
accountable only by means of integers).

I am sure everone can agrees with you that an 'altruistic suicide' _causing_
single
mutation carrying mutant individual has abolutely no chance - without having
already spawned any with this gene equipped offspring/s - to become a
successful candidate for ancestorhood if it is faced with a situation that
triggers a behavioral expression of this "altruistic suicide gene".

I too care little for mathematical oversimplifications with little of no
power to provoke deep and meaningful insight into how we
evolved to be how we are.

But, different to you, I care SO LITTLE that I don't care
to fight against the possibility that such [or a certain such ;-)]
oversimplification can be unintentionally used to the effect
of causing or reinforcing an ignorance of situations (relevant interactions)
with a great evolutionary (or evolutionary psychophysiological type ;->)
significance [or a "devolutionary significance" - in the case
a reproductive survival via a lessening of functural complexity occurs ;-)];

Including "selective situations" in which individual unit of selection
(the genetically->epigenetically coded for individual/organismic
candidate for ancestorhood) behave in ways that don't even
promote an outcome of the minimum of "1 Edserian fitness count".

This requirement
appears to have selected for a-defend-your-group-at-any cost psychology
evolving within early human tribal societies producing what only appears
on
the surface to be "self sacrificing" behavior. This type of behavior has
become magnified and become more widespread within super tribal societies
as
the levels of stress become larger as the group size increases. It
particularly affects adolescent males who subsist at the bottom of any
tribal/super tribal pecking order.

I would prefer to explain such (and plenty of other) behavior from several
very
different and more meaty (IMHO) angels - but I believe I see (roughly) what
you mean.

P


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