Re: Bombshell?

Perplexed in Peoria <jimmenegay@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Anon." <bob.ohara@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Perplexed in Peoria wrote:
"Guy Hoelzer" <hoelzer@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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I just returned from a conference last week where I had the pleasure
of hearing talks by both E.O. Wilson and D.S. Wilson, and interacting
with both them afterwards. If the recent publications referenced
below are like a whiff of a bombshell, then cover your heads because
it may really be about to blow. The pair of Wilsons are collaborating
on a paper soon to be (already?) submitted to Science; of course, it
may be rejected there and eventually come out elsewhere. They will be
making a MUCH stronger case for multilevel selection, and a case for
the evident insufficiency of single-level selection theory (i.e.,
individual selection only) and kin selection in that paper. This may
be the paper that brings this debate all the way to the surface of the
scientific dialogue regarding evolution.


Somehow, I doubt that that will happen. Both Wilsons have been
singing that old group selection gospel music for so long that I doubt
many people will want to listen to them singing in chorus. Except, of
course, for the diehard gospel fans. The Wilsons ought to try for a
cross-over hit by adding some British talent to the group. Maybe Alan
Grafen on bass and Richard Dawkins beating the drums. Then people
might listen.

I think the reaction of a lot of people will be "so what?". It's an old
argument that's been resolved (check Levels of Selectionin Evolution,
edited by Laurent Keller, especially the first chapter).

Keller certainly claims that it has been resolved, and then presents his
resolution. But it seems to me, and IIRC to some reviewers of the book,
that the stated resolution resolves nothing - it neatly sidesteps the
points of controversy.

Here is an interesting online review (by a philosopher) of the 'levels
of selection' debate.
http://human-nature.com/nibbs/03/okasha.html

I think that the problem arises when the replicator distinction is taken
too literally. As Samir notes, if the issue is the fitness of
*individuals* (including group individuals) the problem is rather
different. Then the question is whether or not the fitness of components
of an individual will subvert the fitness of the larger group (i.e., the
multicellular individual), and as cancer shows, sometimes it does. So
then even the question of individual organism selection is a case of
group selection, and the selection of individuals with selfish
components is a case of group selection. If there are replicators (i.e.,
genes) that police component selection, then the problem won't arise.
And this will have coevolved with the evolution of multicellularity.
Colonial organisms like Dictyostelium are vulnerable to freeriders
unless they are obligately required to have cell differentiation. So the
evolution of a new lifecycle may act to retard freeriders, and set up
conditions for the gene police.

Evelyn Fox Keller is a woman, by the way.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

.

Relevant Pages

  • Steve Wilson, er, Sailer on names and Indians
    ... David Sloan Wilson has been fighting against the "selfish ... arguing that "group selection" also frequently occurs. ... evolution of cooperative and altruistic behaviors. ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
  • Re: Evolution In Humans
    ... >> Evolution of a species only happens when only a few of the individuals ... Evolution by natural selection can only ... "new" forms of group selection are only multi ... Darwinian single level of selection which remains ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Aristotle and his tautological influence
    ... The words 'evolutionary', selection, alleles  and fitness are ... allele outwitting the weak allele. ... IOW if you toss out the EVIDENCE for evolution there's no evidence for ... group selection, evolution etc. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Darwinism=Capitalism
    ... >> incorporate Mendelian genetics, random genetic drift, kin selection, ... >> was not one of Darwin's theories on evolution although I believe he ... Both kin selection and group selection have ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Bombshell?
    ... The pair of Wilsons are collaborating on a paper soon to be ... single-level selection theory ... that the stated resolution resolves nothing - it neatly sidesteps the ... Here is an interesting online review of the 'levels ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)