Re: Culture is not consciously developed? Q for Wilkins

Guy A Hoelzer <hoelzer@xxxxxxx> wrote:

in article einvm2$2lut$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, John Edser at
edser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 11/6/06 10:42 AM:



j.wilkins1@xxxxxxxxx (John Wilkins) wrote:-

I don't deny that drift happens all the time. It is also all that is
operative in populations when the selective coefficient moves to zero.

JE:-
Which it hardly, it at all, does.

Hence, drift is what is there when selection is low. When selection gets
too low, drift is the predominate "force". This implies that drift and
selection are much the same "forces" in that drift is the mere absence
or low coefficient of selection.

JE:-
"Drift and selection are much the same "forces" "
How can you equate just a random process with a non random process within
the empirical sciences?

If I read John correctly, he is saying that we have artificially decomposed
the single process of evolution into stochastic and deterministic
components. Jim McGinn has been making this argument for years on sbe. I
tend to agree. If this is correct, then John is not equating drift with
selection; rather he is saying they are two sides of the same coin.

Cheers,

Guy

*Thank* you! Another way to say this is that in the theorem of
selection, as _s_ goes to zero, you are increasingly left with drift as
the default state. Drift is the absence of selection, selection is a
bias that overwhelms drift.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Standards of Evidence
    ... >>treats the external environment as constant - selection occurs, for instance, ... how diversity is affected by environment size. ... Or it may be that one speciation occurs we ... >>coefficient or ordinary drift changes a population, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: A critique of the BBC aquatic ape programme and the transcript.
    ... >> efficiency differences were broadly due to selection and that swimming ... If drift is the ... > as evidence. ... Whether or not they've received proper criticism ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: A critique of the BBC aquatic ape programme and the transcript.
    ... >> So, having exposed my error, Jason, can you now explain to me why drift ... >> compared to chimps but not our walking efficiency and not chimps' ... > handle on than either bipedal locomotion or swimming. ... > It isn't something that selection "gave" chimps since the split. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: On the Origin of a Species
    ... If isolation results from drift, we expect equal change in each ... The rate of neutral evolution doesn't depend on ... Selection and genetic drift are entirely separate processes. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: A critique of the BBC aquatic ape programme and the transcript.
    ... >>> I was arguing that science has to be done properly. ... >>> selection is not the appropriate null. ... >>> fallen victim to all of these problems, Algis. ... are they due to selection or drift? ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)