Re: The Cost of Substitution [possible REPOST]



RAGLANDMYCOOL@xxxxxxx wrote:-

JE:-
The following problems
1) What is the cost of substituting one gene for another in a single
population?

Ragland: People die!

JE:-
Hello Michael,

Death cannot pay the cost of substituting one gene for another within a
population of any defined size but reproduction can. The cost of
substitution has to be paid reproductively on a per parent per population
basis (additive per parent per population) otherwise the population just
shrinks to extinction. Each parent must, at the very least, replace itself
on average otherwise the population size must decrease. For the population
to remain minimally constant each parent on average must raise at least one
infertile form to fertile adulthood within that population. If you allow
Felsenstein to get away with not defining any population constant whatsoever
then his mythical zero cost has to be paid for by a population reduction.
This changes his only zero excess frame of reference. A zero cost would be:
allowing one gene to substitute for another within a population only via
zero reproductive excess, i.e. the population remains at the same size
minimally maintaining itself during the substitution. However, within the
zero cost that Felsenstein et al have allowed they have grant themselves TWO
and not just the one zero point of reproductive excess. Their second illegal
zero is the zero excess point of just the smaller population. If you can
have two and not just the one point of zero excess then you CAN quite easily
provide yourself with a free lunch but only via a hopeless and irrational
contradiction.


1. Start with a population of animals.
2. Detrimental change in the environment occurs.
3. A few individuals have a genetic variation that allows them to
"overcome" the detrimental change in the environment.

JE:-
They have to be able to _minimally_ maintain the population size as a
proposed constant for any rational "zero excess" to even become definable.

4. The genetic variation will spread through the population as more of
the offspring that posses the favorable genetic variation will survive
to adulthood each generation.

JE:-
No, the genetic variation will spread through the population as more
offspring from each parent that have the favorable genetic variation are
reproduced AND raised to fertile adulthood on strictly, a parent by parent
additive basis.

5. But in the meantime (while the favorable genetic variation is
spreading), a number of deaths will occur solely because of the change
in the environment.
6. These deaths - that would not have occurred if the environment had
not changed - are what Haldane called the substitution cost.

JE:-
A population either increases, decreases or remains constant. The cost of
substitution is just the number of fertile forms required to be reproduced
to increase a decimated population to the size that it once was. There is no
cost as long as the population remained constant, i.e. only required zero
excess to make the substitution. To be able to calculate any rational cost
just a single point of zero excess is allowable and not TWO (which
Felsenstein et al have illegally allowed themselves).

Regards,

John Edser
Independent Researcher

edser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx








.

Relevant Pages

  • RE: The Cost of Substitution
    ... ReMine's paper "Cost Theory and the Cost of Substitution ... I agree with ReMine that the cost of substitution cannot be zero. ... substitution requires reproductive excess. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: The Cost of Substitution
    ... The cost of substitution remains EXACTLY deductive from what Felsenstein ... disallows extinction while providing a single measure of zero reproductive ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: The Cost of Substitution
    ... You can define "a substitution" to be anything you wish so what you ... The cost at this level becomes a simple deduction ... Felsenstein must supply his so far ... _entirely missing population constant_ as an algebraic term for his zero ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: The Cost of Substitution
    ... The cost of substitution remains EXACTLY deductive from what Felsenstein et ... _entirely missing population constant_ as an algebraic term for his zero ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Haldanes Dilemma - clarifications - and Felsenstein
    ... Walter fails to mention that they also recommended rejection, ... If someone here other than Remine (or one other poster to whom I am not ... Review of "Cost Theory and the Cost of Substitution ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)