Re: Evolutionist withholds evidence on Haldane's Dilemma

On 25 Apr, 19:42, "Perplexed in Peoria" <jimmene...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Vend" <ven...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in messagenews:f0lgfe$1bak$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 17 Apr, 19:58, "Perplexed in Peoria" <jimmene...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Walter ReMine" <scie...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in messagenews:f00bhk$4ss$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Evolutionist withholds evidence on Haldane's Dilemma

For many years I have publicly claimed Haldane's Dilemma is a major
unsolved problem for evolution. A problem so severe it threatens
macroevolution as a "fact" and evolutionary genetics as an empirical
science. Toward a solution, evolutionary geneticist, Leonard Nunney,
published a paper reporting his computer simulations. He claimed his
computer simulations show rates of beneficial evolution much faster
than the Haldane limit. Evolutionists now cite Nunney's computer
simulation as a refutation of my position.

Starting December 19, 2006, I sent emails to Prof. Nunney, expressing
my interest in his paper, and requesting access to his simulation
software. After several emails, across several months, I eventually
reached Professor Nunney by phone on April 5th. He acknowledged he had
received my emails, and said he had not responded because I "do not
publish in peer-reviewed journals." (his words)

I again requested his software for my examination of his published
results and methods. He declined, saying he will not share his
software with "people who do not publish in peer-reviewed
journals." (his words)

I'm sure Prof. Nunney is a fine person, but this is bad public policy.
Nunney's simulation is claimed as a solution to Haldane's Dilemma.
(Quite falsely, I would add.) And Nunney's work was done at a tax-
supported institution, (the University of California, Riverside). And
Haldane's Dilemma is part of a high profile public controversy
directly affecting our politics, and our public schools - where
evolutionists exert monopoly control. Evolutionists have an obligation
to be forthcoming on the matter. Yet they are withholding their
evidence.

Haldane's Dilemma is a scandal several decades long already - and the
scandal keeps getting worse.

-- Walter ReMine
http://SaintPaulScience.com/withholding_evidence.htm
http://SaintPaulScience.com/Haldane.htm

Walter, you have my sympathy. Nunney's refusal to cooperate on the grounds
that you "do not publish in peer-reviewed journals" is delicious irony.
And, to add insult to ... er ... insult, an anonymous vandal keeps re-adding
this note to the Nunney reference in the "Haldane's Dilemma" article in
Wikipedia:

This paper conducts simulations of small populations with variations
in mutation rate and other factors, and produces results that are
dramatically different than Haldane's low subsitution limit (except
in certain limited situations). See e.g. Figure 1. Creationist Walter
ReMine, who has invoked Haldane's dilemma as an unsolvable problem
for evolution for over a decade, has yet to address this paper.

Lets see. You have yet to address Nunney's paper. But Nunney refuses to
show you his simulation code unless you first publish in the peer-reviewed
journals. And Ewens and Crow won't let you publish in the peer reviewed
journals because what you have to say is already well known. Don't get
all paranoid, Walter, but it does appear they are conspiring against you.
;-)

Incidentally, Nunney's paperhttp://www.sekj.org/PDF/anz40-free/anz40-185.pdf
strikes me as a pretty good contribution to the Haldane's Dilemma debate,
in part because it agrees with my amateur intuitions on the subject.
Nunney shows that there *is* a limit on the rate of substitution, but
that it is a less stringent limit than Haldane's in the case of *density
dependent* selection. Haldane got his limit using the assumption of
*density independent* selection. Nunney also provides some good discussion
of the fact that both kinds of selection must be considered, as well as
both "hard" and "soft" selection.

It seems to me, though, Walter, that you don't need access to Nunney's
code to replicate his results. The assumptions he used are clearly stated
in the paper. Write your own simulation based on those assumptions, and
if you get different results, show Nunney *your* software and results.
Publish them on your web site, if you wish. You may be getting a raw deal,
but you have lots of ways of getting around the roadblocks. Unless, of
course, you really don't want to engage your opponents, and prefer instead
to complain about their unfairness.

What is this Haldane's Dilemma? The Wikipedia article is confusing and
unclear.

Probably because it has been a battleground of edits and counter-edits. I would
recommend that you look at Robert Williams's web sitehttp://www.gate.net/~rwms/haldane.html
with the understanding that it is biased in one direction, and then look at
Remine's web site,http://www1.minn.net/~science/Haldane.htm
with the understanding that it is biased in the opposite direction. You won't
get a neutral POV in either place, but you may get more clarity.

And then, if you are ambitious, go to the primary literature.

As to the name "Haldane's Dilemma", it was coined by van Valen who apparently
thought that the 'dilemma' was something facing a species - if it 'tries' to
evolve too fast, it goes extinct, but if it evolves too slow, it probably faces
eventual extinction as well.

ReMine, however, interprets it as a dilemma facing evolutionary biologists - if
they claim that evolution proceeded as fast as they might like to think it did,
then they must admit that the evolution occurred by a process other than natural
selection. Or so ReMine claims.

Ok, thank you.

But I see a problem: if the population size remains constant, how can
be the population become less fit to the environment as the result of
the environment change (perhaps I'm missing something about the
definition of fitness).


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: No distinction between artificial and natural selection - John
    ... successful ones), deductive and inductive inference, etc are evidently ... Not that evolution should attempt to take over the whole established ... That's a reference to the impact of brains and computers. ... Step 2 requires a simulation of the world, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Evolutionist withholds evidence on Haldanes Dilemma
    ... unsolved problem for evolution. ... Toward a solution, evolutionary geneticist, Leonard Nunney, ... simulation as a refutation of my position. ... publish in peer-reviewed journals." ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: computer simulation
    ... In a paragraph explain how others thing evolution works, ... i spent a while studying an area called 'artificial life'. ... simulation with some 'faked' stuff makes no sense. ... where inside the model and so far you have no evidence that we are. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Evolutionist withholds evidence on Haldanes Dilemma
    ... unsolved problem for evolution. ... simulation as a refutation of my position. ... Starting December 19, 2006, I sent emails to Prof. Nunney, expressing ... Walter, you have my sympathy. ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Evolutionist withholds evidence on Haldanes Dilemma
    ... unsolved problem for evolution. ... Toward a solution, evolutionary geneticist, Leonard Nunney, ... simulation as a refutation of my position. ... publish in peer-reviewed journals." ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
Loading