Re: Evolution is NOT random

On Tue, 27 May 2008 18:31:59 -0400 (EDT), dkomo <dkomo871@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

r norman wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2008 13:27:26 -0400 (EDT), Virgil <Virgil@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


In article <g11mb0$1aci$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
dkomo <dkomo871@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Virgil wrote:

In article <g0nk4a$1p7k$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
dkomo <dkomo871@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



It's hard to imagine any quantum fluctuation
strong enough to cause one set of pick-up sticks to fall in a different
pattern.


Not for me. If any one stick were to be exactly in balance on its
pointed end, which, while highly improbable, is not impossible, then its
direction of eventual fall is unpredictable, and could be effected by
quantum events.


Highly improbable? About as improbable as the quantum fluctuation that
initiated the big bang. You wouldn't see this happen in any of the
trillion identical worlds, but you might see it if you had a trillion
raised to the power of a trillion worlds.

The set of vertical positions from which a stick's eventual direction of
falling would be effected by quantum events has positive measure.

Just getting the stick to perfectly balance is a problem in itself.

It only has to be sufficiently in balance to have its future positions
macroscopically effected by quantum effects. If Schroedinger's cat's
life can be affected by quantum effects, so can the final positions of
pick up sticks.


I confess to being the creator of the "pick-up sticks" metaphor. It
was really just that and not a serious example of a situation strongly
influenced by quantum phenomena. However there are, indeed, enough
possibilities where quantum phenomena can be magnified to exert a
macroscopic effect. Biology is the best example where the behavior of
an entire organism is produced by the behavior of its cells which is
produced by the behavior of its organelles which is produced by the
behavior of its molecules which most definitely can be influenced by
quantal fluctuations. In particular, there are organisms known where
activity in a single neuron releases significant behavior. And
fluctuations in the details of molecular gates in the membrane can
alter the firing of the neuron. Also there are powerful amplifying
factors in cell signaling machinery so that individual molecular
events can cause significant changes in the activity of a cell. We
humans are not capable of "seeing" a single photon but only a very
small number is necessary to evoke a response and we can measure the
response to single photons. Certainly the absorption of a photon by a
molecule must be taken to be a quantal event.


Keep in mind that just because an event takes place at the quantum
level, that doesn't mean it is a random event. A photon striking an
atom will cause an electron to be ejected 100% of the time if the energy
of the photon is greater than the ionization energy of the electron.
There's no *probabilty* less than one that the electron will be ejected!

Another example is measuring the ionization energy of a hydrogen atom.
This energy is an eigenvalue of the lowest energy eigenstate of the
atom. These kinds of eigenvalues are *determinate*, not probabilistic!
Measure the ionization energy a million times, and you will get the same
value a million times (within experimental error).

You're throwing out all these examples of quantum phenomena but you
haven't considered which are truly random, and which aren't.

I'm preparing a second draft of my "Evolution is NOT random" thesis
which will address the question of quantum events. It will, in part,
make use of the "E" word -- emergence.

If an electron does absorb a photon, then it does, with probability
one. If it does not, it does not, with probability one. But what is
the probability that the absorption will occur? Not every photon is
absorbed.

The energy levels of a structure are deterministic. But whether an
electron makes a jump between levels is not.


.

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