Re: R&M's "memory illusions" and functional verbal response classes

From: Sergio Navega (snavega_at_intelliwise.com)
Date: 08/02/04 

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:30:19 -0300

"Lester Zick" <lesterDELzick@worldnet.att.net> escreveu na mensagem
news:410bc454.15307074@netnews.att.net...
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:52:30 -0300, "Sergio Navega"
> <snavega@intelliwise.com> in comp.ai.philosophy wrote:
>
> >"Lester Zick" <lesterDELzick@worldnet.att.net> escreveu na mensagem
> >news:410ae9ac.10450252@netnews.att.net...
> >>
> >> Trivia synonymous with awareness and host of other terms. You can
> >> pick and choose colloquial usage to stack your case as apparently you
> >> choose in the best traditions of behaviorist apologetics. However,
> >> abstract thought is only associated with consciousness in humans.
> >
> >Lester, I'm trying hard to be at your side here, but I can give
> >you some references about pidgeons and monkeys and cats doing
> >things that fit into the "abstract thought" category.
>
> Well, Sergio, I appreciate that we're treading relatively unfamiliar
> paths here. The case for abstract thought is solid but exact bounds
> are difficult to set. Most critical thinkers include humans and many
> do so exclusively. The basic problem is what we mean by evidence of
> abstract thought. I take it to be the interrelation of concepts as
> designated by words. Of course then people cite parrots. I've always
> found it amusing that people looking to include animals as moral or
> intellectual equivalents of humans are so quick to comment on how
> smart animals are and how stupid humans are.
>
> The actual facts of the case are that we are obviously many orders of
> magnitude smarter than animals in terms of abstract thought and
> abstract thought manipulation. Which doesn't make animals stupid so
> much as dumb. However this doesn't really alter the basic case that
> abstract thought is the primary characteristic that should be
> associated with the term consciousness as it is applied to humans as
> distinct from animals. Whether and the extent to which animals can be
> said to think abstractly is another problem. But I have yet to have a
> meaningful coversation with one.
>
> What I'm saying is that there are a multitude of potential synonyms
> for consciousness which animals share with humans. But of those the
> one they share the least is abstract thought. So if there is any sense
> in which the term consciousness should be taken as appied to human
> behavior, it ought to be the most restrictive, i.e. abstract thought.
>

Consciousness is really a word with too many meanings. But when we
talk about abstraction, then things can be a bit more precise.
Several experiments have demonstrated such abilities in non human
animals. In one of them, a monkey learned to derive, by itself,
the concept of "equal" and "different". I interpret these studies
as suggesting that the kind of difference in abstraction abilities
between humans and non human animals is more of a quantitative
nature, rather than qualitative.

Sergio Navega.

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