Re: Some brain questions i need help with
From: JPL Verhey (matterDELminds_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 09/28/04
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:24:28 +0200
"dan michaels" <feedbackdroids@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d8494cf.0409261904.5677de85@posting.google.com...
> "JPL Verhey" <matterDELminds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<41549811$0$44085$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>...
>
>> >> When I was young (<8 y/o) I frequently had "out of body"
>> >> experiences
>> >> at
>> >> night. I think they were dreams, but in the dream I really felt I
>> >> woke
>> >> up, see the things as when awake but sorta dreamy-dimmed and start
>> >> hovering through the room, through the corridor, downstairs under
>> >> the
>> >> sealing, a peak in the livingroom..and then back to nothingness.
>> >
>> >
>> > I suspect all of these new-agers who believe in this stuff have
>> > simply
>> > trained [or entrained] their internal mechanisms that produce these
>> > same dream experiences. Kinda like biofeedback, but without the
>> > machine. You relax, tune out the external world, and concentrate
>> > upon
>> > producing those sorts of experiences internally. You're just
>> > training
>> > or entraining, learning how to stimulate, the same brain
>> > mechanisms.
>> > Producing the same loops of activity.
>>
>> Indeed. All these Lucid-Lucy things just make you feel less slave of
>> the
>> harsh dictate of the senses..you float around in the Sky with
>> Diamonds.
>>
>> But it's interesting to think of our the normal healthy wake state as
>> basically not different from "other dreams"..all the brain's own
>> production. Kinda eery this dream-machine!
>>
>> Could it be that all our efforts to make sense of it, explain it,
>> model
>> it into some comfortable computations..are like trying to voo-doo the
>> scary ghost back into the cosy bottle?
>>
>
>
> I don't know ... it's your head, why be afraid of it? In one sense,
> the new-agers are internauts. Exploring places where most of us never
> go, except in dreams. I doubt they're astral traveling to other
> dimensions, prolly just learning to manipulate parts of their brains
> that most of us do not have conscious access to. Prolly a variation on
> the hindu yogi tricks of slowing breathing, attenuating the heartbeat,
> etc. You do know that a lot of the time, they [new-agers] bring on
> their states by using hyperventilation, which biases the acid-base
> balance, and CO2 regulation, of the body.
Although I think it is not by default a bad thing to be an internaut and
experiment with tricks, it appears most western internauts are just
after "having experiences", not much different from seeking pleasure and
sensation, drule over stuff for sale in shopping malls, visit brothels.
It's mostly just in the "experiences for sale" market place. Stand on
your head for a day "like the yogis" and feel special. I always wonder
how kids and animals do it - they don't need all that.
> BTW, in his book The Muse in the Machine, David Gelernter the Yale
> comp.scientist spends a lot of time hypothesizing that ancient man,
> primitive peoples, and children tend to be more in touch with the
> emotional aspects of thinking, as opposed to the logical aspects,
> which govern behavior after the early teen years. His theory is about
> a multi-level spectrum of thinking, and as we "mature" and become
> socialized by our western cultures, we loose some of the abilities
> possessed by those 3 other groups. Maybe the new-agers are tapping
> back into that.
I'm not sure what abilities we lose.. but in our rationalized and
technologically advanced western societies where we move around in
buildings and sit behind computerscreens at the workplace doing rational
work under neon lights all day, much of the physiology of our organism,
our senses that for hundreds thousands of years were tuned in and active
in the wild.. get numbed. 15 years ago or so, I worked at a farm in
Sweden - the simple and physically hard outdoor life. Cutting wood in
the forests for hours, repair fences, feed the animals, experience
winter moving into spring.. hard to beat by any new-age wonderland cult.
> ==============
>
>
>> Which reminds me: "better a bottle infront of me, than a frontal
>> lobotomy."
>>
>> Cheers
>
>
> Man, you europeans sure know how to live ;-).
..how to drink you mean? ;)
I have an 87 year old uncle, a neuroscientist in his working life who is
losing his memory for the last years, and always was an introvert. Some
alcohol does miracles - he comes back to life, although it now means he
keeps telling the same stories over and over again within minutes.
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