Re: Explain this brain paradox.

From: Glen M. Sizemore (gmsizemore2_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 09/29/04 

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:24:41 -0400

Pain is misunderstood, like all psychological issues, at the conceptual
level.

"John Hasenkam" <johnh@faraway.> wrote in message
news:415a5387@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Wolf Kirchmeir" <wwolfkir@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:vlZ5d.3439$MD5.318309@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Sawal_7432 wrote:
> >
> > >>Migraines and headaches appear to originate in inflammation of the
> covering
> > >>of the brain. In migraines there is often abnormal blood flows so the
> pain
> > >>may be originating in blood vessels but I suspect it still involves
the
> > >>tissues surrounding the brain. As usual the research is controversial
> but if
> > >>you read enough neuroscience you get used to that. Certainty is for
the
> > >>ignorant.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi again, thanks for the replies to my original question, i think i
> > > understand what you said.So i would like to make some further pints to
> > > clarify what i have been told:
> > > 1)So, a person using drugs, or someone feeling pain in their
> > > heads, might feel as if the pain's originating from their brains,but
> > > in actuality the pain is from an area adjacent to the brain,such as
> > > the membranes surrounding the brain? Does that mean these tissues can
> > > feel pain? If so, during the preliminary stages of brain sugery,whilst
> > > the skin around the head and membranes/tissues around the brain are
> > > being cut,the patient needs anaesthesia administered to him? And once
> > > the surgeon reaches the brain there is no need for anaesthesia then?
> >
> > In some cases the surgeon uses local anesthesia only. In these cases,
> > the patient's responses to mild brain stimulation (via electrodes
> > administering micro-currents for example) are necessary to help the
> > surgeon decide where to cut. In other cases, total anesthesia is
> > administered.
> >
> > > 2)For the pain to originate in the areas near the brain,but to be
> > > actually perceived as if coming from the brain is a little odd.For a
> > > human,the brain is arguably the most vital organ,and yet a person is
> > > not even able to sense whether the pain of a headache or the euphoria
> > > from cocaine is from the brain or from the spinal cord or from the
> > > tissues surrounding the brain.How is it such an incredibly complex
> > > organ like the brain can mis-interpret the origin of relatively simple
> > > sensations?
> >
> > You're assuming that there is a simple pathway between the damaged part
> > and the brain. There isn't. That's why the treatment of pain is
> > sometimes very difficult.
> >
> > Many kinds of pain seem to originate in areas other than the damaged
> > part. For example, during the onset of a heart attack, the pain usually
> > seems to be localised in the left arm and shoulder, not in the chest.
> > That's why people have to be taught to recognise the signs of a heart
> > attack - they aren't what you would expect if things were as simple as
> > your last question implies.
> >
> > Then there's phantom pain: pain perceived in an amputated limb, which
> > isn't there at all any more.
> >
> > And chronic pain, a condition that I wouldn't wish on anybody (having
> > known one sufferer), in which the relationship between the perceived
> > pain and any inflammation or injury is obscure, to put it mildly, so
> > that treating the pain is very, very difficult.
> >
> >>
> > Buried in your puzzlement is a confusion between pain signals and the
> > experience of pain. They aren't the same thing. Pain signals can be
> > traced, at least in principle (that doesn't mean all pain signals
> > pathways are known.) Just how these signals translate into the "feeling
> > pain" is a mystery - it's part of the mystery of consciousness.
>
> I suspect pain is misunderstood because it involves more than the nervous
> system. Most pain killers are cox 2 inhibitors, this enzyme, apart from a
> mulititude of other functions, plays a key role in inflammation. Recent
> research into neuropathic pain strongly suggests the involvement of
> microglia driving the inflammation and pain. Hence there is now research
> into CB 2 agents, Cannabinoid receptor in many immune cells. And surprise
> surprise surprise, just as CB 1, localised to the CNS, quells the activity
> of neurons through a retrograde messenger process, CB 2 receptors slow
down
> immune function. This is why pot smokers have reduced immune activity,
> though the jury is out as to whether or not this equates to loss of immune
> function. Interestingly, some research indicates that longevity is
> associated with reduced inflammatory cytokine production by the immune
> function. Even athersclerosis is associated with inflammation and the
> growing evidence suggests that reducing the inflammatory arm of the immune
> system confers various benefits. Omega 3's have a similiar effect but via
> different avenues.
>
> I don't think pain will ever be understood by neural dynamics alone.
>
> What is
> > known is that anything that blocks or interferes with the pain signal
> > somewhere along its pathway will reduce or eliminate the experience of
> > pain. Anesthetics do this by blocking the signals chemically. It's also
> > possible to use distraction, which presumably blocks the pain signal
> > somewhere else, but just how is not AFAIK understood. Phantom pain
> > indicates that pain signals may be generated in the brain itself.
>
> Strange thing, read recently that phantom pain correlates with the degree
of
> cortical sensory rearrangement. Strangest case I ever read about phantom
> pain was about some poor man who had his penis amputated due to cancer.
For
> 20 years afterwards he kept having phantom erections. Imagine that.
>
> Also
> > keep in mind that pain signals aren't very different from ordinary
> > sensation signals. For some sensations, perhaps all of them, an increase
> > in intensity becomes a "feeling of pain." So the problem of perceiving
> > pain is part of the problem of perceiving anything at all. It's not at
> > all simple.
> >
> > PS: Kindly put a space after a period and after a comma.
> >
> > HTH
>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Challenge to the behaviourists, #1
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  • Re: Explain this brain paradox.
    ... >> in actuality the pain is from an area adjacent to the brain,such as ... If so, during the preliminary stages of brain sugery,whilst ... > Buried in your puzzlement is a confusion between pain signals and the ... Cannabinoid receptor in many immune cells. ...
    (sci.cognitive)
  • Re: Challenge to the behaviourists, #1
    ... >>can infer pain onnly from the organism's response, ... >>be under control of contingencies other than pain signals. ... otherwise disparate regimens with no common features. ...
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  • Re: Explain this brain paradox.
    ... In migraines there is often abnormal blood flows so the pain ... >>may be originating in blood vessels but I suspect it still involves the ... >>tissues surrounding the brain. ... Buried in your puzzlement is a confusion between pain signals and the ...
    (sci.med)
  • Re: Explain this brain paradox.
    ... In migraines there is often abnormal blood flows so the pain ... >>may be originating in blood vessels but I suspect it still involves the ... >>tissues surrounding the brain. ... Buried in your puzzlement is a confusion between pain signals and the ...
    (sci.cognitive)
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