Re: Religion center in the brain

Kali wrote:
In <1157752504.963352.179650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Matt Menge mspmenge@xxxxxxxxxxx said: : : Glen M. Sizemore wrote:
: > <jalegris@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
: > news:1157554167.358836.35350@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
: > > Glen M. Sizemore wrote:
: > >> "Francis Burton" <fburton@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
: > >> news:1156956110.585369@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
: > >> > In article <4llpltF2eggvU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
: > >> > Joachim Pimiskern <JoachimPimiskern@xxxxxx> wrote:
: > >> >>A newer article cast doubt on the discovery:
: > >> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5296728.stm?lsf
: > >> >
: > >> > Oh dear, just because more than one spot lights up there isn't
: > >> > a "centre"?! Can someone name =any= brain function or activity
: > >> > that is localized to a single spot? To my mind, it doesn't make
: > >> > sense to talk about centres for this or that function until we
: > >> > at least define what we mean by "centre" in this context.
: > >>
: > >> You're right. All this talk about centers is a bunch of horsecrap. It
: > >> fits
: > >> in nicely with animism, though, and mainstream psychology, and the fields
: > >> it
: > >> has corrupted, is just a "modern" form of animism.
: > >>
: > >>
: > >
: > > You're seeing the crap before the horse. Modern neurology got its start
: > > from the apparent connections between specific brain injuries and
: > > associated behavioural changes. Some were borne out, others were not.
: > > So it goes, and now we sharpen the focus.
: >
: > But in the final analysis, correlations between brain loci and observed
: > deficits etc. don't explain how neurophysiology mediates behavioral
: > function. But it seems that it does to a number of people. Neuroimaging has,
: > for many, become a sort of endpoint. I suggest that this is because their
: > conceptualization is now, and has always been, a thinly-disguised animism.
: > They already talk as if indwelling entities - call them homunculi - see
: > copies of the world, make decisions on that basis, and pull the levers that
: > make behavior occur. And now they think they know where the little men are
: > hiding in the brain.

This strikes me as woefully out of touch. : Haven't we analyzed the process of visual perception to the point where
: even different aspects of it have been localized to certain regions of
: the brain, kind of run in a parallel processing fashion?
: : Best Regards,
: : Matt

Yes, although the system is less parallel than dynamic. I wonder who "they" (these referenced animists) are.

Kali


You're one, it seems.

What we actually observe is that certain neurons or groups of neurons activate when certain objects are present in the visual field and/or the subject talks about (etc) certain objects present in the visual field and/or the subject remembers seeing (etc) certain objects (etc.) What we don't observe is any part of the brain perceiving anything. What we actually observe is _subjects_ (people, animals) perceiving.

Consider a driver driving a car. She steps on the accelerator and the car speeds up. Various parts of the car respond in characteristic ways - the injector pushes more fuel and air into the cylinders, the oil pump pushes more oil through the bearings, the transmission rearranges itself internally ("shifts gears"), and so on and so forth. By your logic, these are all "aspects of acceleration localised within the car."

You can't ascribe a behaviour of the whole system to some part(s) of the system. The best you can do is say that the behaviour of some part(s) of the system correlate to the system's behaviour. And sometimes you can say some part's behaviour is a link in a causative chain that results in the system's behaviour. Then you consider yourself lucky, because you may be able to influence the system's behaviour by controlling the part's behaviour. If your luck extends that far.

BTW, systems analysts know this very well. Maybe cognitive scientists should study systems analysis.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Religion center in the brain
    ... : Kali wrote: ... activate when certain objects are present in the visual field and/or the ... don't observe is any part of the brain perceiving anything. ... Consider a driver driving a car. ...
    (sci.cognitive)
  • Multitasking while driving may exceed brains capacity
    ... Even a simple form of multitasking — driving while listening ... disrupts the ability to navigate a car safely, ... biological limit on the amount of systematic brain activity they can ... Cell phones stand out as particularly problematic for drivers, ...
    (sci.military.naval)
  • Re: What part of the brain is conscious?
    ... When we move a static electric field we observe a magnetic ... Of course it makes sense to say that neural brain ... there's a much harder hard problem I just found. ...
    (comp.ai.philosophy)
  • Re: Criticism of philosophical materialism (and a comment on someone2)
    ... would be able to observe it, because we can observe brain activity. ... Consciousness is exclusive to the possessor. ... I can scan your brain while you see red. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: First round of descriptive/external exercises
    ... There's already a fair bit of pattern detection before the signal leaves the eye, and those patterns are turned into objects as quickly as possible by the brain so that emergencies can be dealt with promptly. ... This happened to me when I was driving to work one day and saw, a hundred metres or so ahead, a car rolling over and over towards me. ... Despite having seen cars rolling on TV in car chases enough times, this is not the normal behaviour of cars and I was seeing a familiar object in a totally unfamiliar way. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)