Re: Religion center in the brain

In <45022058$0$29445$9a6e19ea@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Wolf K
El_Lobo_Viejo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:
: Kali wrote:
: > In <1157752504.963352.179650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Matt
: > Menge mspmenge@xxxxxxxxxxx said:
: > :
: > : Glen M. Sizemore wrote:
: > : > <jalegris@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
: > : > news:1157554167.358836.35350@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
: > : > > Glen M. Sizemore wrote:
: > : > >> "Francis Burton" <fburton@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
: > : > >> news:1156956110.585369@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
: > : > >> > In article <4llpltF2eggvU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
: > : > >> > Joachim Pimiskern <JoachimPimiskern@xxxxxx> wrote:
: > : > >> >>A newer article cast doubt on the discovery:
: > : > >> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5296728.stm?lsf
: > : > >> >
: > : > >> > Oh dear, just because more than one spot lights up there isn't
: > : > >> > a "centre"?! Can someone name =any= brain function or activity
: > : > >> > that is localized to a single spot? To my mind, it doesn't make
: > : > >> > sense to talk about centres for this or that function until we
: > : > >> > at least define what we mean by "centre" in this context.
: > : > >>
: > : > >> You're right. All this talk about centers is a bunch of horsecrap. It
: > : > >> fits
: > : > >> in nicely with animism, though, and mainstream psychology, and the fields
: > : > >> it
: > : > >> has corrupted, is just a "modern" form of animism.
: > : > >>
: > : > >>
: > : > >
: > : > > You're seeing the crap before the horse. Modern neurology got its start
: > : > > from the apparent connections between specific brain injuries and
: > : > > associated behavioural changes. Some were borne out, others were not.
: > : > > So it goes, and now we sharpen the focus.
: > : >
: > : > But in the final analysis, correlations between brain loci and observed
: > : > deficits etc. don't explain how neurophysiology mediates behavioral
: > : > function. But it seems that it does to a number of people. Neuroimaging has,
: > : > for many, become a sort of endpoint. I suggest that this is because their
: > : > conceptualization is now, and has always been, a thinly-disguised animism.
: > : > They already talk as if indwelling entities - call them homunculi - see
: > : > copies of the world, make decisions on that basis, and pull the levers that
: > : > make behavior occur. And now they think they know where the little men are
: > : > hiding in the brain.
: >
: > This strikes me as woefully out of touch.
: >
: > : Haven't we analyzed the process of visual perception to the point where
: > : even different aspects of it have been localized to certain regions of
: > : the brain, kind of run in a parallel processing fashion?
: > :
: > : Best Regards,
: > :
: > : Matt
: >
: > Yes, although the system is less parallel than dynamic. I wonder
: > who "they" (these referenced animists) are.
: >
: > Kali
:
:
: You're one, it seems.

You base this assumption on what, precisely?

: What we actually observe is that certain neurons or groups of neurons
: activate when certain objects are present in the visual field and/or the
: subject talks about (etc) certain objects present in the visual field
: and/or the subject remembers seeing (etc) certain objects (etc.) What we
: don't observe is any part of the brain perceiving anything. What we
: actually observe is _subjects_ (people, animals) perceiving.

You're serious, aren't you? You're going to ride this assumption
to hell and back, too:

: Consider a driver driving a car. She steps on the accelerator and the
: car speeds up. Various parts of the car respond in characteristic ways -
: the injector pushes more fuel and air into the cylinders, the oil pump
: pushes more oil through the bearings, the transmission rearranges itself
: internally ("shifts gears"), and so on and so forth. By your logic,
: these are all "aspects of acceleration localised within the car."

I reject your incorrect assumptions about 'my logic' entirely.

: You can't ascribe a behaviour of the whole system to some part(s) of the
: system. The best you can do is say that the behaviour of some part(s) of
: the system correlate to the system's behaviour. And sometimes you can
: say some part's behaviour is a link in a causative chain that results in
: the system's behaviour. Then you consider yourself lucky, because you
: may be able to influence the system's behaviour by controlling the
: part's behaviour. If your luck extends that far.
:
: BTW, systems analysts know this very well. Maybe cognitive scientists
: should study systems analysis.

Kali
--
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former
begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Hippocrates (c460-c.377 BCE) Greek physician. Law
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Religion center in the brain
    ... :> But in the final analysis, correlations between brain loci and observed ... What we actually observe is that certain neurons or groups of neurons activate when certain objects are present in the visual field and/or the subject talks about certain objects present in the visual field and/or the subject remembers seeing certain objects What we don't observe is any part of the brain perceiving anything. ... She steps on the accelerator and the car speeds up. ...
    (sci.cognitive)
  • Re: Trucks on the M6
    ... the car is driving to slowly... ... enough for the truck to be able to move faster, ... you observe them losing control and react to it. ... be some types of accident where you can't expect the cause of the ...
    (uk.transport)
  • Re: "The Aether and Charges of Charlatanism"
    ... D:- Once the existence of a single velocity reference frame is shown to be ... possible within the confines of Special Relativity, ... whether we can observe such an object is ... will mysteriously feel as though my car is backing up. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Upcoming Puppies
    ... Can you tell me how I find when the puppies were first being born? ... Robin had to take Kali to Wake Forrest ... twins in their car seats in the back, so Kali was up front with her. ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.behavior)
  • Re: Asshole of the day
    ... >> So you are somehow implying that would change the behavior that I observe ... > your own car when you are not on duty, ...
    (rec.autos.driving)