Re: RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $120 AN HOUR!!

From: Bill Bonde ( ``I could have nailed the St. Helena goat's pelt to the deck'' ) (stderr2_at_backpacker.com)
Date: 06/10/04 

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:28:59 -0700

Albert wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:01:58 -0700
> "Bill Bonde ( ``I could have nailed the St. Helena goat's pelt to the
> deck'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > How strong is a small businessman who might want to pay someone to
> > sweep up but can't see paying a high wage for that?
>
> I hope he's strong enough to sweep his own floor. I'd like someone else
> to mow my yard for me, but I can't afford it.
>
You hope he's strong enough to clean up his own business? You can't
afford to have your lawn mowed? Meanwhile there are people willing to do
those things and you want to make it illegal?

> <snip>
> > I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that businesses have some
> > deal worked out to pay people low wages?
>
> No need to. Demographics and the fact that some workers are more
> desperate than others works just fine.
>
Why do you think they are desperate?

> <snip>
> > But you are arguing for government running the economy again. That's
> > been shown not to provide for "the poors" as well as capitalism. Look
> > at the Soviet Union.
>
> Ah! The old "Soviet Union" pony again, as if our only options were
> laissez-faire capitalism and Stalinism.
>
A person who wants to make it illegal for someone to work for a wage he
wants to work for and an employer wants to pay him is closer to the
Communist than the Capitalist. He's also closer to the authoritarian
than the lover of freedom.

> <snip>
> > If people have the human right to food, water and basic shelter, then
> > find ways to provide that human right, but don't pretend that that
> > should be forced on the market.
>
> Are you suggesting some sort of black market outside of the public
> market? How would that work to provide employment?
>
The prime motivators for desperate action are the threat of freezing to
death or staving to death. To the extent that those are removed, the
employee's bargaining position is improved, don't you think? 

-- 
"By the life of God, it doth even take my wits from me to think on it!
Here is such controversy between the sailors and the gentlemen, and such
stomaching between the gentlemen and sailors, that it doth even make me
mad to hear it. But, my masters, I must have it left. For I must have
the gentlemen to haul and draw with the mariner and the mariner with the
gentlemen. What! Let us show ourselves all to be of a company and let us
not give occasion to the enemy to rejoice at our decay and overthrow. I
would know him, that would refuse to set his hand to a rope, but I know
there is not any such here." -+Sir Frances Drake