Re: Laffer Curve

From: Johnny Marcos (johnny5_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 07/03/04 

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 14:16:05 GMT

The Trucker <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cc52ot0253c@news3.newsguy.com:

> The voters have a very difficult time changing any of this because the
> TwoParty holds a virtual monopoly on information. I do not mean that
> people cannot find the facts if they really work at it, (although
> under the Bush regime this is becoming more and more difficult) but
> the information most people receive is from the tube and that
> information is almost always slanted in favor of those who are in
> control and want to stay in control.

Look, the main policy issue for me was someone stopping all this illegal
immigration and preserving the value of my citizenship - they both
pissed that away so I have to agree with Michael Moore - the rich get 2
parties and the rest of us get none.

> It is virtually impossible to run a successful campaign for a seat in
> the US House of Representatives without first securing major funding
> from special interests.

Ok so the system is broke, everything is going to collapse - how are you
individually preparing? Are you gonna buy bullets like another poster
on this forum is going to do to prepare for the coming civil war?

 That might be OK for the senate, but the
> House was to represent the common people and the number of persons
> represented by each member of the House was to be on the order of 30
> thousand. If constituency sizes were held at 30 thousand instead of
> being allowed to swell to 600 thousand (about 426 thousand voters),
> then an honest and forthright individual truly representative of the
> people in his district might be able to run a successful campaign
> WITHOUT special interest money.

In my studies of anthropology - small societies culturally similar -
racially similar - they have a good cohesion - but as our country grew
and grew our political system did not adapt and it just is a house of
cards I have been told. I agree - one person cannot represent the
issues of 600K voters - that is an impossibility. The tower of Babel
had to be knocked down and its people dispersed - this was probably an
effective way to distribute the people and bring some sense of
representation back to the people. How do you propose we spread the
people? We had one language - but now like the tower of babel we have
english and spanish on all the signs at my walmart. Send the prolifers
to one state - the pro choice to another - the mexicans to one - the gay
marriage to one - I like that idea - I want to be around people like me
with similar values and views - I am tired of this diversity - it
complicates and adds complexity and I want to simplify and streamline.

> Well, uh, I was thinking more about where the money might come from
> so as to conduct a fake war. If the banks create it and give it to
> Bush then there is no taxation and the people will not hold him
> accountable for his imperialistic prancing.

A fake war? China is building thier military machine with the help of
our financing - with 1.1 billion people and equal technology and economy
they are going to squash us like a roach.

> (snicker) I would be interested in seeing how YOU calculate "real"
> interest rates.

The cpi subtracted from the fed rate. We are going negative. It does
not pay to save. And the cpi using the rent amount of homes instead of
actual prices and other tricks really makes the rate even more negative
than that equation.

> (includes gold, silver, art, jewels, etc). Looking back over the
> last 25 years land is the best, gold etc, comes in second, bonds
> is third, real capital is forth, and one's own education is dead
> last. Will this continue? It will depend on whether or not
> we can get rid of the Republicans.

You really believe the rich democrats are better than the rich
republicans? Rich being the key qualifier.

> be funded by excise taxes or land taxes and failing that it should be
> funded out of the same bag as defense and everything else.

My grandmother is laying in her piss in an old folks home - the system
is falling apart.

> Nope. But in the early seventies (I think it was the early seventies),
> SS benefits were indexed to the CPI and still are (as far as I know).
> The benefits certainly SHOULD be indexed to CPI. Inflation (other
> than moderate inflation) is not, therefore, an assult on the elderly
> poor.

Come on - that CPI is so full of *** - you don't buy the gubbment is
printing the REAL numbers do you? Take out energy and food - hell its
GREAT - this is such a farce.

>> My mother is old, my grandmother even older - what do they gain?
>
> If they are not "productive" then they will not gain.

They are old, they are not productive - they will not gain - they will
lose - medicare can't pay the workers enough where my grandmother is for
them to bother changing her sheets - she lays in her piss for 2 or 3
days sometimes - she gets sores on her skin where she lays in her piss.

 That does
> not mean that they must lose and it does not mean that you, as
> a producer, will not gain sufficiently to care for these people.

I have a mexican that lives next door to me in the trailer park - he
works for a cable company installing cable - out in the hot sun for 3
dollars an hour - even if I was as young and strong as him I could not
make it on 3 dollars an hour - sometimes they do not even pay him the 3
dollars an hour - but he does not complain - how can he - he is here
illegally - so he is just happy when they give him peanuts - I cannot
compete against that.

> If SS benefits are indexed it is difficult to see how it hurts her.

It hurts her because the nurses in there taking care of everyone are
really shitty people and the 10 dollars an hour or so they make does not
seem to be enough to motivate them to clean her sheets.

> Do not run off into posture land here and screech about horrendous
> inflation being a problem. I acknowledge that. We are speaking of
> moderate (say 2%) inflation.

Its already too late for my grandmother though right NOW - she is
getting shitty medical care that could kill her - laying in her piss has
caused these sores on her skin and started giving her bad infections.

> But how much of that is due to inflation (a monetary problem caused
> by the creation and injection of money into the economy that does
> not produce any real capital development)

Right - injected money cannot replace real goods and services.

> You have been brainwashed (as was the objective) by the economics
> proffession. If inflation (defined by the masters of misdirection
> as an overall price increase) should be cured by monetary policy
> then it would seem we are assuming that monetary policy is the
> _cause_ of the problem.

Look, you have 10 chickens and your friend 10 turkeys - he gets 10 iou's
for a claim on each turkey and you get 10 iou's for a claim on each
chicken - total of 20 IOU's in the economy - the chickens and turkeys
are put into a hen house - the bank - now you and your friend can
exchange the IOU's without having to actually carry around the chickens
and turkeys - you want 2 turkeys but your friend doesn't want the 2
chickens just yet - so your friend takes 2 iou's and gives you 2 of his
and you take his and go to the bank and get the turkeys - when you get
the 2 turkeys those 2 IOU's need to be destroyed - it no longer
accurately reflects a claim on a real good that the bank hen house
holds. Well while you were away a fox got into the hen house and ate
some of the birds - you have to reduce the IOU's now to accurately
reflect the resources they represent - increasing the IOU's far beyond
the 10 chickens and 10 turkeys means it is gonna take many more IOU's
per chicken. if you put 7 more chicken in the hen house - you raise
the tokens representing those chickens by 7. Inflation means it takes
more ious for the chickens because money was expanded and no longer
accurately reflect the resources it represented - deflation means it
takes less ious for the chicken because money was reduced. Money has to
grow and fall to accurately reflect the resources it represents to stay
honest. If 2 hens have sex I didn't do any labor but now they have 3
baby hens and they were in my hen house when they had sex so I can use
them for trade - so now I need 3 more tokens. Even if they were in the
banks hen house and had 3 baby chicks - well the bank it seems will get
to create 3 more tokens and have 3 hens for trade - because I parked my
chickens in thier henhouse because I didn't want to be bothered with
carrying around my chickens or housing them myself - so the bank wins -
thats life - maybe I can get the bank to set up a system where I get
some of the baby chickens and they get some of the baby chickens. You
don't want the banks making the money - finance a 30 year home loan at
5% to someone yourself and don't let the banks take your money and do it
for you.

  Because if that is not the case then the
> root cause should be found and that is what should be "adjusted"
> so as to cure the "inflation".

Inflation as I understand it is just when too many IOU's have been
printed for too few chickens.

> http://GreaterVoice.org/econ/glossary/inflation.php

Look I trade a baby chicken for a baby turkey - I didn't work for that
chicken - my friend didn't work for that turkey - thier parents had them
in our respective hen houses. When adam and eve reached up and ate that
fruit off the tree - they didn't sit there and cultivate the land and
fertilize it or water the tree - it was a FREE GIFT from GOD.

It was not by gold or silver adam ate that fruit - and not by his labor
either. It was a FREE GIFT.

Credits in the market have to accurately reflect the resources they
represent. If you steal my chickens or you steal my credits it is no
difference. The IOU's still need to accurately reflect the resources
they represent.

Referring to your weblink - the value of money - in my example it is 10
chickens and 10 turkeys - that is the value of all the money in the
economy - all 20 IOU's. My chickens have 20 baby chicks - I didn't do a
damn thing - I just woke up one day and saw 22 chickens where there used
to be 2 chickens - I can now go to the bank and get 22 tokens amd leave
my 22 chickens. I just fail to see how you are gonna quantify those 22
tokens with labor when it was a FREE GIFT for those extra 20 chickens -
my labor did not make them - they were a gift from god.

Lets use your oil example from that web link, 1 gallon of oil is equal
to 1 IOU - as more gallons flow from the ground - a free gift from god -
I create more IOU's - as I burn gallons - I need to burn those IOU's. I
give you an oil IOU, you give me a turkey IOU - we go to the bank to
collect - you get your oil I get the turkey and 2 dollars need to be
removed from the money supply.

Ok the oil embargo hits - what is the problem - if they don't let it
flow out of the ground and don't add it to my economy - a dollar never
gets created for it to represent it - no IOUS for resources not there -
there is never a token to represent a resource that is not there. There
is not going to be a price increase in oil because each gallon has 1 IOU
against it. As each gallon burns, 1 iou burns with it as each chicken
gets eaten 1 iou gets consumed with it.

We only got 10 gallons out before the embargo - 10 tokens of oil - one
guy has 20 chicken and one guy has 2 chickens, the guy with 2 chickens
trades them for 2 oils - there is 8 oils left - the other guy brings 8
chickens - trades them for 8 oils - all the oil is gone and the money
should have been reduced to reflect that. the oil PRICE should only go
up if I printed more oil IOU's than there was gallons of oil.

Oil is flowing from the ground - chickens are having babies - god gave
me both these gifts - I didn't have to do anything to make either one of
them - he said this world is yours - have at it.

Land - adam and eve got to the garden of eden first - either steal from
their fruit tree or take some land down the road. If the population
grows faster than the land made available to it - you say let adam and
eve starve because they are getting old and let the young that are
strong take the fruit from the tree. But why should you get to eat off
thier tree when they were there first?

The indians were in America first - but the stronger europeans with
thier guns and diseases and education took the LAND - the strong take
from the weak - as they always have done. The old people that don't
produce - they are going to be robbed - the young will not work for
them. Under your mindset - when you hit 60 years old and you start
slowing down - and I am 30 and young and strong I need to come boot you
off your land - or like the europeans did the indians - just shoot you
because I am younger, stronger, more productive and can do more with it
than an old used up coot like you - and that is what is going to happen
like it has always happened.