Re: Greenspan, a common criminal

From: Johnny Marcos (johnny5_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 07/07/04 

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 04:35:41 GMT

royls@telus.net wrote in news:40eb414a.25971756@news.telus.net:

> The legions knew they were defending their homes and families. They
> just didn't want to do it unpaid, effectively as slaves.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/parrington_henry_george.html

Hence the logical outcome of the Industrial Revolution, when it should
have run its course, was the reduction of the worker to the level of a
slave, compared with whose material condition the status of the southern
bond-slave was enviable. The southern apologists of slavery had been
right; the negro on the plantation enjoyed advantages denied to wage4abor
under industrialism.[

The roman citizen chose negro type slavery to war machine rome slavery.

You think richies and thier tax cuts was a bigger problem than the war
machine? The reason taxes were raised - to fund the war machine - as
they got raised you entered the negative feedback loop - riches cheated -
working class get more burden - emporer raised taxes more - richies
cheated more - working class got even MORE burden - emporer raised taxes
more - what was the REAL cause of the taxes - to support the war machine.

>>The citizens willingly jumped into
>>league under the large land owners to escape central rome and its WAR
>>MACHINE that they had grown tired of funding.
>
> Because the rich were getting all the benefits, but weren't paying any
> of the taxes.

So you feel the richies got all the benefit - and not the emporer and his
legions? The war machine was the reason for the overbearing tax - if you
could have wiped away the war machine and the causes for a war machine -
you think rome still would have fell because the richies were getting tax
cuts? The tax wouldn't have kept increasing if the war machine didn't
have greater and greater demands.

> That happened in Egypt because over centuries, the land tax exemption
> for the temples drove all the land into their hands, eliminating the

So now the war machine and the churches are our enemy.

> only efficient tax base. As a result, almost everything else was
> over-taxed (the hordes of tax collectors and over-regulation of the
> economy were all to facilitate taxation), wreaking great economic and
> social destruction.

You really think the catholics and jews and all the rest are going to let
you start taxing their churches? Let me ask you someting Roy L - I often
say rich bush or rich kerry - rich being the key qualifier - rich bush is
cutting taxes for the rich - I assume this makes you not want to vote for
him, but rich kerry is a member of the catholic church - scylla or
charybdis.

> Once you know what to look for, it all fits, over and over again.

Rich Bush or Rich Kerry - catholic Kerry not gonna let you tax the rich
church - Rich Bush not gonna let you tax his rich friends - scylla or
charybdis?

>>The later
>>Hellenistic period was also one of almost constant warfare, which,
>>together with rampant piracy, closed the seas to trade. The result,
>>predictably, was stagnation.
>
> Notice how the Cato Institute carefully conceals the crucial, central,
> decisive fact that the burdens of taxation were shifted away from land
> and wealth and onto economic activity.

No I didn't, you have to point these things out for me - I am just a dumb
citizen.

>>They worked to serve the states war machine - they got tired of that
>>*** Roy L.
>
> They got tired of not getting paid, liar.

So they got paid as slaves under the rich land owners that they willingly
threw themselves at?

negro bond - slavery, rome war machine slavery, european industrial
slavery, catholic church slavery, scylla or charybdis - take your pick.
You fix one hole in the leaky boat - 2 more open up.

> Augustus kept the garrisons well stocked, ignoramus. That's what kept
> trade free. Duh.

So you advocate the nuclear build up and star wars programs we fund?
Militarization of that type is OK?

> And land taxation, Johnny Ignorant.

scylla or charybdis, you will close one bleeding wound and the vampires
will find a way to suck you from 2 new places.

> "Who desires peace prepares for war." -- Roman proverb

The longtime emphasis of the old liberal tradition with regard to war is
this: even the victor loses. We lose resources. We lose tax dollars. We
lose trading relationships and good will around the world. Most of all,
we lose freedom. And herein lies the biggest cost of war to us, for there
is no way that the U.S. can maintain a free market that is the foundation
of prosperity while at the same time attempting to create a global
military central plan.

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1193

The government continues to downplay the economic calamity before our
eyes while talking up the prospects for a calamity that can only be
solved, they say, by use of the biggest big-government program of them
all: war.

At the end of the Cold War, many of us hoped that normalcy would return,
that the U.S. would become again a peaceful commercial republic. But Bush
the elder had a different idea. He decided to bomb Iraq and to impose
sanctions that would last 12 years, kill untold hundreds of thousands,
inspire terror plots all over the Muslim world, and provide a new
rationale for why the U.S. must continue to squander hundreds of billions
a year on military public-works programs.

We are often told we must go to war because some swarthy foreign head of
state is not a big fan of the U.S. president. This year, the person
fitting that description is Saddam Hussein. Before that it was the Mullah
Omar. A few years earlier, it was Milosevic. Before that, it was some
ward-heeler in Somalia. Moving backwards in time, we had to take out the
strongmen in Panama and Haiti. The story goes on and on. It seems that
the U.S. government is addicted to conflict. It just can't seem to give
it up.

Now, I know there will be plenty of disagreement when I say we ought to
be trading with Iraq, not bombing it. But let's at least be clear on what
we are talking about when we refer to the U.S. military machine. The U.S.
will spend $400 billion on its military this year—and that doesn't
include V.A. hospitals, most spying, the atom-bomb building at the Energy
Department, the military part of Nasa, or the Pentagon's huge "black" or
secret budget.

The second highest military budget in the world is Russia. Going down the
list, next comes China, then Japan, then the U.K. You have to tick
through 27 countries and add their total spending together to equal what
the U.S. spends per year. Not since the Roman Empire has a single country
been so militarily dominant.

Big government abroad is incompatible with small government at home. To
the extent we cheer war, we are cheering domestic socialism and our own
eventual destruction as a civilization. But perhaps you do not need
persuading on any of these matters. I know many people who look at the
economy and the military belligerence of the US government and they react
with despair. I reject this posture. For one thing, I am firmly convinced
that the government has reached too far.

What was it you said ROY L about preparing for war?

> That is an outright falsehood.

Ok so you and Cato experts disagree, hell I am just a dumb citizen - if
the experts can't agree how am I supposed to know anything?

> enough of it to undertake massive public works as well as military
> expansion and the dole, while Diocletian and his successors couldn't

Mises, who was so brilliant when it comes to issues of money and credit,
also saw the need for a thriving economy to operate amidst an environment
of peace. "War," he said, "is harmful, not only to the conquered but to
the conqueror. Society has arisen out of the works of peace; the essence
of society is peacemaking. Peace and not war is the father of all things.
Only economic action has created the wealth around us; labor, not the
profession of arms, brings happiness. Peace builds, war destroys."

> Absolute garbage.

I am just a dumb citizen, if the smarties can't agree on what is true and
what is lie how do us dumb citizens agree?

 The main source of public revenue under the
> republic was war booty (which logically enough almost all went to pay
> the army), while the second biggest revenue source was
> _rent_from_public_lands_.

War is your answer - those who desire peace prepare for war right?

> Right. As I said. Tax revenues were _lower_ in the late Empire.
> They were just obtained from the wrong things, because all the land
> had been driven into the tax-exempt hands of the nobles.

war machine slavery, wage slavery, bond slavery, church slavery, scylla
or charybdis - take one step forward and get knocked 2 steps back.

> Nope. It was declining revenue, as a result of land becoming
> tax-exempt as the nobles acquired it.

scylla or charybdis - tax exempt churches, tax exempt landowners, tax
exempt industrialists, tax exempt corporations in bermuda with free labor
in china, tax exempt war machine - choose your poison Socrates.