Re: TURMEL: Ben Franklin, Prof. Flaherty, on Death gamble

From: Castlef (joejmd_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/05/04 

Date: 5 Nov 2004 10:08:59 -0800

william_b_ryan@hotmail.com (Bill Ryan) wrote in message news:<45bb7944.0411042000.441188d9@posting.google.com>...

> "...creating money from nothing, and charging
> interest is profitable to the lender, and inimical to
> the borrower..."
> -------------------------
> ----------------------
> The banker does not create money from nothing, but
> monetizes the credit of the community, thereby
> facilitating production, distribution and
> consumption. That is generally profitable to lender
> and borrower in the first instance, ultimately
> benefiting the community as a whole through the
> increased wealth that the entrepreneurial process
> facilitates.

The banker does create money from nothing. And are you arguing that
because they do provide a means of an exchange, it is benefiting us?
Lol. I do not deny that having the bankers create money is better than
having no money at all. But the point is that for their service they
should charge a service fee instead of interest.

 "The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys
which it creates out of nothing."
- William Patterson, Bank of England

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of
nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding
piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented.
Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin.
The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but
leave them the power to create deposits, and with the
flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to
buy it all back again. However, take this great power
away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine
disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would
be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you
wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost
of your own slavery, let them continue to create money
and control credit."
- Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England
in the 1920s, the second richest man in Britain

"The most sinister and anti-social feature about
bank-deposit money is that it has no existence. The
banks owe the public for a total amount of money which
does not exist. In buying and selling, implemented by
cheque transactions, there is a mere change in the
party to whom the money is owed by the banks. As the
one depositor's account is debited, the other is
credited and the banks can go on owing for it all the
time. The whole profit of the issuance of money has
provided the capital of the great banking business as
it exists today. Starting with nothing whatever of
their own, they have got the whole world into their
debt irredeemably, by a trick. This money comes into
existence every time the banks 'lend' and disappears
every time the debt is repaid to them. So that if
industry tries to repay, the money of the nation
disappears. This is what makes prosperity so
'dangerous' as it destroys money just when it is most
needed and precipitates a slump. There is nothing left
now for us but to get ever deeper and deeper into debt
to the banking system in order to provide the
increasing amounts of money the nation requires for
its expansion and growth. An honest money system is
the only alternative."
- Frederick Soddy, Nobel Prize Winner, 1921

"Banks lend by creating credit. They create the means
of payment, out of nothing."
-RALPH M. HAWTREY, (Former Secretary of the British
Treasury)

"Commercial banks create checkbook money whenever they
grant a loan, simply by adding new deposit dollars in
accounts on their books in exchange for a borrower's
IOU.", p. 19.
-Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Modern Money
Mechanics,

"Banks create credit. It is a mistake to suppose that
bank credit is created to any extent by the payment of
money into the banks. A loan made by a bank is a clear
addition to the amount of money in the community."
-Encyclopaedia Britannica, 14th Edition

 "the banks, of course, do not
lend out their depositors' funds. Each and every time
a bank makes a loan, new bank credit is created, brand
new money."
-Graham Towers, Gov of the Bank
of Canada 1939

"I am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the
banks can, and do, create and destroy money. And they who control the
credit of the nation direct the policy of governments, and hold in the
hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."
- Reginald McKenna, Chairman of the Midland Bank in London

"The eyes of our citizens are not sufficiently open to
the true cause of our distress. They ascribe them to
everything but their true cause, the banking system; a
system which if it could do good in any form is yet so
certain of leading to abuse as to be utterly
incompatible with the public safety and prosperity.
The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly
hostility existing against the principles and form of
our Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

>
> It is incumbent on you - the stereotypical crank - to
> demonstrate why it is inherently "inimical" to the
> borrower or to anyone else. If you can't do that,
> just shut up. Mere assertion won't do it.

>
>
>
> oejmd@yahoo.com (Castlef) wrote in message news:<6f6ec514.0411040532.67da6fc9@posting.google.com>...
> > william_b_ryan@hotmail.com (Bill Ryan) wrote in message news:<45bb7944.0411030905.7df26509@posting.google.com>...
> >
> >
> > "Case closed on interest per se being the cause of the problem"
> >
> > Wrong there... You see I even agree with you that "The only way that
> > "debt virus" can be salvaged in any form is to demonstrate that
> > bankers somehow
> > "underconsume" "... or in other words, not spend the money back into
> > circulation throwing a monkey wrench into the operation. But this
> > still does not in any way conclude that the case is closed and that
> > interest is not the cause of the problem. If you cannot see how
> > creating money from nothing, and charging interest is profitable to
> > the lender, and inimical to the borrower ... then I beseech you to
> > open your eyes, because your limited point of view is the kind that
> > drags everyone, including yourself, down.
> >
> > >
> > > The only way that "debt virus" can be salvaged in
> > > any form is to demonstrate that bankers somehow
> > > "underconsume" in a manner that is different than
> > > is the case for any other group of transactors in
> > > the economy. The mechanism how this can occur
> > > needs to be actually described, not merely assumed
> > > as some sort of unspecified "constant" that
> > > "correlates" to observed data.
> > >
> www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > -
> > >

Relevant Pages

  • TURNING THE TABLES ON WALL STREET: NORTH DAKOTA SHOWS CASH-STARVED STATES HOW THEY CAN CREATE TH
    ... NORTH DAKOTA SHOWS CASH-STARVED STATES ... HOW THEY CAN CREATE THEIR OWN CREDIT ... Dakota has the only state-owned bank in the nation. ... It loans money to students (over 184,000 outstanding ...
    (misc.news.internet.discuss)
  • Re: Be afraid, be very afraid!
    ... Your bank doesn't have cash, or moola, long green, the jack, or just plain dough. ... If everybody wrote a check on your bank at the same time, the bank would have to borrow the money to pay. ... They don't have their profits yet from the sale of goods, so they have lines of credit, that is, institutions willing to supply the moola for a charge. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Aggregate debt
    ... >>I don't say that the banking system really does this every year. ... >>Do we agree that money supply may increase or fall depending on the ... > amount ultimately depends on the demand for bank credit. ... > A typical return on equity is about 10% if the bank is well-managed. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Inflation and Deflation
    ... There are actually two types of money: ... credit money issued by private banks. ... No, it's all bank credit, so in the ...
    (sci.econ)
  • They think we cant handle the truth.
    ... The truth may be unthinkable, ... refinance millions of defaulting mortgages ... ... They say their unbridled money printing won't devalue the U.S. dollar. ... the nation's fourth largest bank with nearly $800 billion in ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)