Re: the splendors of unsocialized medicine

From: MS (mikesc_at_iname.com)
Date: 11/06/04 

Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:26:58 GMT

Sgt. Sausage wrote:

> "MS" <mikesc@iname.com> wrote in message
> news:Hwmid.113246$%k.66198@pd7tw2no...
>

>>
>>Goodies? Like retirement savings, one's home, and savings for education?
>
>
> Yer darned tootin! Before you take (by force of government
> mandate) any of *my* assets -- you'd better damned well be
> sure you're not hiding any of your own. Use your assets first,
> it is, after all, *your* injury/disease/disability. *You* deal
> with it. When you're broke, then you might be able to have
> some of mine -- if I'm in a charitable mood.
>

The poor and middle class pay taxes, too. Perhaps they should get
something in return.

>
>>What if your insurance company drops you because you are no longer a "good
>>risk", i.e., profitable?
>
>
> Then it's time to pay cold, hard, cash. Last time I
> looked, most doctors/hospitals still take it. Sure,
> they prefer a good medical policy, but I've never
> had one refuse cash.
>

That's great if you have money. What if your disease is no fault of
your own and you're refused treatment?

>
>>Nothing liking kicking a person when they're down.
>
>
> Nothing of the sort.
>
> There's a huge difference between kicking (action)
> someone when they're down, and simply walking
> away (inaction).
>

No. It's watching someone else get kicked while they're down.

> I'm choosing to walk away. It is, after all, my
> choice. You can *ask* me for help, but you can't
> *force* me to give it. O yeah ... you can. Taxes.
>

Isn't it amazing that the countries (US included) that tax their
citizens have the best societies? Praise Jesus... the original socialist.

>
>>>Although thats the present system. People die because thats what people
>>>are supposed to do. Die. Me, you, all of us. Its not the govs job to
>>>save every last persons life in endless healthcare. We do have medicare,
>>>medicade, and SS disability insurance for those that can no longer work.
>>>Thats a lot for what little we pay for it.
>>>
>>
>>How about children with Cancer? Again do you kick a mother while she's
>>down by forcing her into bankruptcy?
>
>
> That's *exactly* why we have bankruptcy laws in
> place. In earlier times, we'd just let the kid
> die and put Mom in debtors prison. Now we have
> something much more humane. Bankruptcy laws.
> They're supposed to *releive* you of your debt
> burden and give you a "fresh start". You've
> got a problem with that?
>

Or you're refused treatment. Or when you receive it, you only get it
when it is an emergency and most expensive. Then that person declares
bankruptcy and your premiums go up because the insurer has to recoup costs.

>
>>>Actually you have a somewhat distorted view of what happens. The quality
>>>of care goes down, the plans sucks, companies buy their insurance from a
>>>better provider with higher quality care and the money sucking one goes
>>>out of business. Plus we have many non-profit health insurance companies
>>>in the US. A major one is Kaiser. As much as people like to complain
>>>about them, theyre pretty damn good.
>>>
>>
>>But costs rise unabated.
>
>
> And they always will. The inflation monster wont
> be stopped. Start saving your money. You're gonna
> need it.
>

Health expenditure growth is much higher and will always be higher in
the US system.

>
>>Worse, Americans spend 55 per cent more on health care than Canadians.
>>And for all this expenditure, worse overall results but more frills.
>
>
> I'm quite happy with what I pay for. And I'm an American.
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>No doubt. The best in America is the best in the world and you won't get
>>any argument here.
>
>
> Ask yourself -- you did agree didn't you (?) -- ask
> youself just *why* "the best in America is the best
> in the world" ?
>

The *best* is the *best* in the world. But the worst, are among the
worst in the world.

Canadians patients have unrestricted choice of doctors and hospitals,
and Canadian doctors have a wider choice of practice options than U.S.
physicians.

Canadians get more doctor visits and procedures, more hospital days, and
even more bone marrow, liver and lung transplants than Americans.

Surgical outcomes for the elderly (all of whom are insured in the U.S.)
are, on average, better in Canada.

> Because we're the only ones with our heads screwed
> on straight with regards to making people actually
> take responsibility upon themselves with respect
> to health issues.
>

Responsibility? What horseshit. Americans are unhealthier than
Canadians and Europeans. They smoke more, the eat more big macs, and
are fatter. Not having public medicare sure has made Americans more
responsible.

> You slam us because we do it different than you
> and most of the rest of the civilized world, and
> yet you acknowledge that we're the best of the
> best. Hmmmm ... Can you connect the dots here or
> do I have to connect them for you?
>

I didn't say America is the best of the best. I said *some* health care
is the best in the world. In general it is comparably to other countries.

>
>>However, why would it would be any different if the USA had national
>>health insurance?
>
>
> Umm... duh. Yes!
>

No, it wouldn't.

>
>>The doctor would require less time for paperwork,
>
>
> What government agency have you ever dealt with that
> requires *less* paperwork than the equivalent from
> a non-government agency?
>

Look at the size of billing depts at Canadian hospitals vs American
hospitals. With a 1000 different insurance companies doctors have a
multitude of paperwork to deal with that Canadian docs don't. This is
why most Canadian doctors who leave to practice in the USA return to
Canada.

A national health insurance program would save approximately $150
billion on paperwork alone. Because of the administrative complexities
in your system, over 25% of every health care dollar goes to marketing,
billing, utilization review, and other forms of waste. A single-payer
system would reduce administrative costs greatly.

> In what fantasy world does anyone think that
> government involvement reduces paperwork.
>

Some are better than others, just as some businesses are better than
others. Just to name a few of the most successful and helpful: the
National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control, and
Social Security. Even consider Medicare, the government program for the
elderly; its overhead is approximately 3%, while in private insurance
companies, overhead is up to 15-25%.

> [snip]
>
> I'm prior service: U.S. Army and Ohio Army National
> Guard. I've seen *exactly* how our dear old Uncle
> Sam can royally screw up the healthcare system.
> We call it a V.A. Hospital. Not a pretty sight.
> Not a pleasant experience.
>

I agree, but that's not the fault of the system, its the governments
fault for screwing over veterans and military personnel by not funding
the system properly.

> I don't want my civilian healthcare turning into
> that rotting cesspool we currently know in the
> V.A. hospitals across the country. No way, no
> how, and over my dead body!
>

It wouldn't. I just don't understand what Americans are afraid of. A
single payer system -- not government run -- the government just pays
the bills is much more rational.

Americans have the intelligence to see that it is in societies best
interest to have an educated populace. To that end they fund the
education system. Why should healthcare be any different?

Don't get me wrong, the United States is my favorite country in the
world outside my own and I really like and genuinely appreciate Americans.

>
>

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