Re: Wages, Inflation and Social Security

From: Jim Blair (jeb_at_wisc.edu)
Date: 01/20/05 

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:56:41 -0600

"The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:csl3bq0tnh@news3.newsguy.com...
> Jim Blair wrote:
>
> >
> > "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:cs485k01c8f@news3.newsguy.com...
> >> Jim Blair wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> > news:cs29tp02f1n@news3.newsguy.com...
> >> >> Jim Blair wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I say that increased home/land ownership is a GOOD THING. But if
you
> >> >> > disagree,
> >> >> > blame it on Abraham Lincoln. His Homestead Act probably set the
US
> > on
> >> > to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > path of such widespread individual ownership of land that it
cannot
> > be
> >> >> > reversed.
> >> >
> >> > Trucker Coburn:
> >> >>
> >> >> What absolute crap. The majority of so called homeowners refinance
> >> >> their home every two years or so and will never pay off the
mortgage.
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Here you again twist a GOOD thing into a BAD. People refinance their
> >> > house or take a "home equity" loan mostly because the value of their
> > house
> >> > ( yes Roy, house + land under it ) has increased and they can cash in
> >> > on some of
> >> > that gain. That is, because they are riding up the escalator of land
> >> > value increase, and want to convert some of their gains into cash
now.
> >
> > Trucker Coburn:
> >>
> >> They more typically convert all of the gain into cash to pay off debts
> >> they have incurred in the great Republican borrow to consume fiasco
> >> economy.
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Even if what you say were to be accurate, that would be a gain for the
> > home buyer. They buy things on credit (cars, education for the kids,
etc)
> > then
> > pay off their debts with the value increase in their house. What a
deal!
>
> The "buyer" is simply going deeper and deeper in debt and still a
> "renter". He will never _own_ the home.

Hi,

Those with a morgage never pay it off? NEVER??

> >>
> >> >> They are glorified renters and the mortgage companies and banks are
> >> >> the rentiers along with the normal land owning rentiers.
> >
> > jeb:
> >> >
> >> > Here you have a grain of truth, but again make a GOOD look BAD.
"Along
> >> > with"? Yes, both mortgage companies and banks ALSO gain from the
land
> >> > value
> >> > increases. But so do the owners (which you call "glorified
renters").
> >> > Economics is not a Zero Sum game.
> >> >
> >>
> >> In the case of land it _IS_ a zero sum game.
> >
> > Er, the issue here is land VALUE, not land area (which you have called
land
> > mass in the past, revealing that you don't know the difference between
> > area and mass)
> >
> >>....There are owners and there
> >> are non owners.
> >
> > Yes. Typically the older and the younger. People tend to rent when they
> > are young (in college or just entering the workplace), buy a house with
a
> > mortgage when they are middle aged, and have their house free and clear
> > before they retire.
>
> That was true in the 60's and 70's. But there are less and less
> actual _owners_ per capita (those that own the home outright).
> Since the Republicans started their war on the middle class in
> 1980.

So the percent of the population that owns a house free and clear has been
declining since 1980? Is this in the USA or in your fantasyland of
Coburnworld?

Post a link to some data on this. And lets not count people who paid off
their house, but later sold it to move into a nursing/retirement home.

>
> > So your "owners" and "non-owners" are mostly the same people at
different
> > stages of their life.
>
> More Bliar horsecrap.
>
> >>....All the fleeting gains do not produce any more land.
> >
> > Not by area, but yes by value.
>
> (snicker)

??? You don't think land value increases??
>
> >> What is being produced is a lot of debtors and creditors and a lot of
> >> new housing.
> >
> > Yes. Occupied new housing.
> >
> >>....The housing is wealth (as that term is used in econ (actually
> >> the correct term would be goods)) and this is admittedly not zero sum.
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> >> However, when we examine who will ultimately own this wealth in the
> >> current game of refinance and refinance again, we find that the lenders
> >> are and will remain the actual owners. The land surely is zero sum. We
> >> currently have owners and those who want to own and those who wish to
> >> speculate. The typical Republican version of "homeowner" is a
speculator,
> >> buying on margin, or a rather myopic renter. When the rolling wave of
> >> liquidation hits the lenders will own the house and the land and the
> >> price will be somewhat irrelevant.
> >>
> >
> > "ultimately"...."will remain",,, "when the rolling wave ..hits"..."price
> > will be"...
> >
> > You confuse your predictions of the future with reality. And given your
> > predictions about the Republican Party, I don't think there much
> > connection between reality and your predictions. But time will tell.
> >

                     ,,,,,,,
_______________ooo___(_O O_)___ooo_______________
                       (_)
jim blair (jeblair@facstaff.wisc.edu) Madison Wisconsin
USA. This message was brought to you using biodegradable
binary bits, and 100% recycled bandwidth. For a good time
call: http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/4834

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