Re: Wages, Inflation and Social Security

From: Socialism is a Mental Disease (root_at_localhost.)
Date: 01/20/05 

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:56:32 GMT

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:09:34 GMT, New Dark Ages
<nda@ignorance.is.bliss.invalid> wrote:
>
>root@localhost. wrote...
>> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:32:17 GMT, New Dark Ages
>> <nda@ignorance.is.bliss.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >root@localhost. wrote...
>> >> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 04:06:39 GMT, New Dark Ages
>> >> <nda@ignorance.is.bliss.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >root@localhost. wrote...
>> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:48:44 GMT, New Dark Ages
>> >> >> <nda@ignorance.is.bliss.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> It remains for you. For me, it doesn't. For me it's a matter of first
>> >> >> >> principles, namely, that I have the following rights: life, liberty
>> >> >> >> and property.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Well, you're certainly entitled to your little ideology.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's not an entitlement, it's a right.
>> >> >
>> >> >Heck, maybe we agree. How do you define "property" and "liberty" ?
>> >>
>> >> Property (strong sense): whatever one creates and does not relinquish
>> >> control of. Derives from the Principle of Self-ownership.
>> >
>> >What's the "Principle of Self-ownership" ? The idea that we're the
>> >property of ourselves?
>>
>> Yes, the very simple idea that we have full control of ourselves at
>> all times.
>>
>> >> Property (weak sense): whatever one controls exclusively through the
>> >> threat of use of force.
>> >
>> >Land ownership is immoral, then? (Natural resource, controlled
>> >exclusively through the [threat of the] use of force?
>>
>> To be immoral, it would have to violate some principle. For the life
>> of me, I cannot think of one it would.
>
>You don't have any principles about when it is moral or immoral to
>use force--i.e., it's always moral to use force? Particularly when
>you're using it to exclude others from something that isn't yours in
>the first place, by your own definitions?
>

The problem is that it isn't theirs either. Why should it be immoral
to exclude others if others have no moral claim to what I am holding?
That's why I don't think there is a clear philosophical principle on
which to stand for moral guidance here.

>
>Why don't you just say you don't HAVE any principles! Or, that you
>abandon them for personal gain (which is the same thing as saying you
>don't have any).
>

Because I *DO* have principles. They simply say nothing about
ownership of natural resources.

I deleted the rest of your arguments because they simply dwell on the
same thing and I believe I've answered already. 

-- 
"A society that robs an individual of the product of his
effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized
gang rule." -- Ayn Rand

Relevant Pages

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