Re: A Prison State, If Not a Police State

From: michael price (nini_pad_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 03/01/05 

Date: 28 Feb 2005 23:30:38 -0800

"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message news:<tLJUd.4526$DW.3856@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo.com> wrote in message
> news:r_KdnYHeeal-x77fRVn-gQ@rcn.net...
> > Bill wrote:
> >> "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo.com> wrote...
> >>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>"Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo.com> wrote ...
> >>>>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>>>"Dan Clore" <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote ...
> >>>>>>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>>>>>"Dan Clore" <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote
> >>>>>>>>>><Big Dog> wrote in message
> > ...
> >>>>>>>>I disagree. You would also need to do things like control ammonia and
> >>>>>>>>place such cold medications behind pharmacy counters.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Making more and more of a hassle for everyone, not just the group you
> >>>>>>>want to target.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>That's true.
> > ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>It is clear that if you ristrict the supply of hard drugs there will
> >>>>>>>>be less addicts.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>No, it is not. With a lower supply and increased price, users tend to
> >>>>>>>use the strongest form available (injecting methamphetamines instead of
> >>>>>>>taking amphetamine pills, injecting heroin instead of taking codeine
> >>>>>>>pills or syrup, smoking crack instead of chewing coca leaves), leading
> >>>>>>>to an increased chance of addiction and more harm instead of less.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>As I said originally, you focus on hard drugs. In fact the worse, the
> >>>>>>more focus. I would, for example, lower or even remove any attention to
> >>>>>>marijuana. And there are not many coco leaf chewers in the US.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>No, but cocaine could be put into a similar form so that it is not as
> >>>>>addictive. A lozenge or gum has been suggested.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Also, if we reverse your argument it would say that there would be fewer
> >>>>>>addicts if simply opened the boarder to all drugs. Does that make sense
> >>>>>>to you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There may not be fewer addicts, but there would not be more either.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>That clearly can not be true. It would say that if 10 times as many drugs
> >>>>were crossing over then the existing population of addicts would use 10
> >>>>times as much.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The difference in supply would not be anywhere near that much in any
> >>>realistic scenario. But it's assuming that all drugs go to addicts. If
> >>>there was an increase in supply and a decrease in price, use may well
> >>>increase, but that does not mean that all users would be addicts, any more
> >>>than all users of alcohol are alcoholics.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> You are distoring the point that I made. The point is that I originally
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> "It is clear that if you ristrict the supply of hard drugs there will be
> >> less addicts."
> >>
> >> And you responded:
> >>
> >> "No, it is not. "
> >>
> >> I now point out that if you increase the supply of drugs that there will be
> >> more addicts. And you have yet to dispute that - only to suggest that I
> >> said that all drugs would go to addicts, which I never did.
> >
> >
> > Actually it was a previous poster who posted that line of the response.
> >
> > The point is that the supply of drugs coming over the border does not
> > determine the number of addicts--at least not within any realistically
> > achievable limits. And the point about supply going to addicts or just
> > occasional users is relevant to that.
> >
> >
>
> OK. I'm not following that. Assume you decrease the supply to 1/4 of what it
> currently is (and also place restrictions on the ingredients for domestic
> production) would that not cause fewer addicts (or fewer active ones anyway)
> simply because there is fewer drugs?

  Irrelevent since that's impossible to achieve. In any case it's not
clear that it would reduce the number of addicts. It would depend on
how much of the drugs go to addicts now and how much greater a proportion
would go to them if supply was restricted and therefore price increased.
It also depends on how much addicts can reduce the use and still remain
addicts.
>
> Bill
>
> >>>>>But the main point is that it is not use of drugs that is the problem--It
> >>>>>is abuse and the crime and other consequences of the illegality. Aside
> >>>>
> >>>>>from the personal liberty argument, probably 99% of the social harm is
> >>>>>due
> >>>>
> >>>>>to the illegality, not the drugs themselves. See--
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Note my argument has been focused on what to do at the boarder - which the
> >>>>govt. has the right to protect. On the local level, I have argued for
> >>>>reduced sentances and more help.
> >>>>
> >>>>Bill
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>_Licit and Illicit Drugs_. EM Brecher and the Editors of Consumer
> >>>>>Reports. Mount Vernon, NY: Consumers Union.
> >>>>>http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>

Relevant Pages

  • Thamkrabok Monastery Article (Comments second post)
    ... " Drug addicts journey to vomit and vow at Thai temple ... addicts kneeling in a row, ... known only to the abbot and the head pharmacist at the temple. ... It is said to remove the drugs from the body and alleviate withdrawal ...
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  • Re: [OT] Mexico shames US
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    (rec.food.cooking)
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  • Re: The present poilicy on addiction....*drug mis-use".
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