Re: Santorum introduces more rent collection opps

The Trucker wrote:

> "Quirk" <quirk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

> > However as long as the reform you seek has nothing more than
whatever
> > is retained after the cost of subsistence has been subtracted from
the
> > wages of labour to fund it, I am very sceptical of its chances.

> Both undertakings (_real_ representative democracy, and
> your ideal of anarchism) have similar start up costs. I see
> my program as something that bears fruit much earlier and
> something that will continue to bear fruit all the way through
> and far into the future.

The reality is quite the opposite however, since to bear any fruit you
must achieve electoral success, which is not possible, whereas my
investment need only yield Rent and Interest to bear fruit, which is
possible.

And while the accumulation of this Rent and Interest does serve to
build the basis of power, your electoral disappointments do not.

> > Proving it is a distributed network with no central point of
failure.

> Yet it is a client server relationship with the servers in
> control of what gets exchanged.

The relevant detail for the analogy is that it is a distributed network
with no central point of failure.

> > I do not think that Representative democracy is not an
> > attempt at justice, I think it is impossible to reform the State.

> And so long as you and others continue to "believe" that
> then there will be only whining and no reform.

Again, quite the reverse, as long as you and others do not believe that
you rob yourselves of the opportunity to create the Reforms you seek in
alternative structures. Instead making futile attempts to reform the
State.

> > Many liberal ideals, including democracy, can be (and in fact can
only
> > be) achieved by organising industrially instead of politically.
This is
> > the fundamental argument of the Anarchists.

> Then the Anarchists are dead wrong.

I'm sorry you can not see that this is not only right, but irrefutable.

> It is superior numbers that control.

And so long as the majority contributes to a mode of production in
which the majority of their product is appropriated by owners of land,
these "superior numbers" forge the chains of their own slavery.

> That is why all the lying
> and the fabrication. The hearts and minds of the
> people must constantly be controlled through
> lies, distortions, and side shows:

Exactly, all a part of working of the State, there is no reason to
believe the effectiveness of the "lies, distortions, and side shows"
will ever reduce. The Spectacle only gets more and more effective.

> > However they will not be removed so long as the frauds and lies
serve
> > the interest of property.

> For these sickos the control of property is merely
> the means to thier actual ends. And their actual
> ends are the control of hunanity. They measure
> success not in how much property they control
> but in how many people must kiss thier royal
> (or priestly) asses.

In anycase, as long as they get to appropriate the majority of what is
produced, none of that can change, and certainly will not be change by
the institutions they control.

> > They can not "win elections" when they have no candidates to vote
for,
> > and lack the wealth to organise sufficient mass support.

> I've already addressed this: The new wave must offer
> it's own candidates. It may be possible to work through
> a coalition of Greens, Libertarians, and CUIP to
> get this done.

And all of the above, accept a minority of Greens, support private
ownership of land, and whatever potential for electoral success they
have come exactly from convincing the Propertied Classes that they will
serve their interests better that the other parties. Labour, which has
no wealth, also has no voice in the process.

> That is not what I said/meant. It is my own analysis
> and opinion that says it is not sustaibable but through
> democratic processes. You seem to agree with this.

Democracy has always been a central part of Anarchism.

.

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