Re: China's growth is not due to trade


"The Trucker" <mikcob@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dhv72v02443@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> >>
> >> It depends on where you stand as to whether one thing
> >> is seen to rise or another thing is seen to fall.

> "Jim Blair" <jeb@xxxxxxxx> wrote .

> >
> > ???? These are "real" (inflation corrected) dollars. Everyone can
become
> > "richer":
>
> Horseshit, Blair. Rich is a zero sum game.
......
> >> >> So it is quite fair and reasonable to say that wage earners
> >> >> are getting the shaft when compared to those who
> >> >> OWN stuff and receive UNEARNED income (mostly
> >> >> economic rent).

jeb:
> >> >
> >> > More the case that "workers" now own more capital (stocks and bonds)
> > than in
> >> > the past.
> >> >
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/4834/marx.txt

Trucker:
> >>
> >> This is precisely the sort of lying for which the rightards
> >> will forever be guilty. While the number of families owning
> >> shares of stock has grown in the last 20 years, the actual
> >> OWNERSHIP of the means of production by the middle
> >> class has decreased .....
> >
> > Meaningless gribbish unless you define "middle class", and show that
they
> > (however defined) now own less stocks and bonds than in the past.
(before
> > 1980).
>
> I never claimed that they owned LESS stocks, B-liar. I
> claimed that they owned LESS of the means of production.
> That means that their percentage of ownership has fallen:
> ------
>
> What did happen is that the percentage of households with some ownership
of
> stocks, including mutual funds and pension accounts like 401(k)s, did go
up very
> dramatically over the last 20 years. In 1983, only 32 percent of
households had
> some ownership of stock.
> By 2001, the share was 51 percent. So there has been much more widespread
stock
> ownership, in terms of number of families.

Er, yes.
>
> But a lot of these families have very small stakes in the stock market. In
2001,
> only 32 percent of households owned more than $10,000 of stock, and only
25
> percent of households owned more than $25,000 worth of stock.
>
> So a lot of these new stock owners have had relatively small holdings of
stock.
> There hasn't been much dilution in the share of stock owned by the richest
1 or
> 10 percent.

You see wealth as a "zero sum" game because you think in terms of "percent
of the total". So most household that owned NO stocks in 1980 now own
"only" $10K-25K. I say that is an increase. You claim not. Because the
total has grown faster?

Say you live on an island with 9 other families. You have the only house.
If another family builds a house, does that decrease the value or usefulness
of YOUR house? Because your share of the housing stock has dropped from
100% to 50%? And if another is built, your share drops to 1/3?

I say percents don't matter here. The more houses the better. If they all
have their own house, that is GOOD. Not only because of my humanitarian
concern for the other, but also because they will be less inclined to try to
move into MY house ;-)

And I don't care if some of them have a bigger house than me. Only that
my house is big enough for me.



,,,,,,,
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(_)
jim blair (jeblair@xxxxxxxx) Madison Wisconsin USA.
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